(serious) Paypal account suspension due to "offensive" material/titles

[Zeno Marx]

What do sex workers use?

[Goat93]

What do sex workers use?

Credit Cards, Paypal blocked them already for a Year or more i think.
As for Extreme/ Political Sellers, its already going on since last Year or longer.

[DSOL]

What do sex workers use?

Cash App and apps similar

[re:evolution]

Yeah all my funds on there are already frozen cause the account is locked till I remove "noise receptor issue" from my shop because G.O. is featured in there...

Well, clearly I am not surprised by this overtly draconian response from PayPal. Yet to clarify the above, G/O themselves have never been featured in Noise Receptor Journal. Rather there have been a couple of articles I wrote about G/O and were very much focused on ordering my personal interpretation of the group. By PayPal's 'logic' (...if you could call it that...) would be that any publication that featured G/O - even if heavily criticising them - would be verboten.

Yet, I have been increasingly aggrieved by PayPal's exorbitant fees and shitty exchange rates, so I will also look into alternative platforms.

[deutscheasphalt]

It's comical at this point. Paypal flagged a record that only included "for fans of Mauthausen Orchestra" in the description and was otherwise unaffiliated. Even after censoring to M.O. the first PP review came back and once again asked for complete removal of the item.
Stripe for bigcartel seems to be working fine and Discogs too offers a credit card service so I've already removed any linked Paypal accounts. The only power I have over them is to not do business through them again so that's what I'm gonna do even if they don't care but then again I don't care either.

[WCrap]

is it an option to disable the automated paypal-checkout in bigcartel
and instead just get the order transmitted to you and handle it manually?
this way paypal wouldn't get any info on the specific titles in the order,
if not maybe switch to a more proper and autonomous shop-system?

[Theodore]

Yeah all my funds on there are already frozen cause the account is locked till I remove "noise receptor issue" from my shop because G.O. is featured in there...

Do you mean they dont even allow to transfer your money to your bank account ?! I can understand almost everything by the logic "Their place, their rules" but blocking you from taking your money and leave, without any official order from authorities, and even more to blackmail you ...

These assholes need a good 'crazy' lawyer with balls, funds and time to go against them. I bet at the end of a long process they would loose. Not that they care, but they would be forced to change policy. Unless somewhere along the lines writes that we accept that our money belong to them.

[deutscheasphalt]

Do you mean they dont even allow to transfer your money to your bank account ?!

Correct. And in this case we are talking about a 4 figure sum.

[deutscheasphalt]

is it an option to disable the automated paypal-checkout in bigcartel
and instead just get the order transmitted to you and handle it manually?
this way paypal wouldn't get any info on the specific titles in the order,
if not maybe switch to a more proper and autonomous shop-system?

That's not an option as far as I'm aware. To setup bigcartel orders you gotta implement either paypal or stripe as payment method.
Most proper shop systems I have researched before starting the distro were hella expensive. Maybe things have changed. Open for recommendations (please don't say shopify or some shit).

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Opencart is free. You need to pay some modules you may need, but the simple shoppingcart system is free. Of course you need to know how to instal it to your domain or have someone do it for you. It is pretty flexible in terms of lay-out and other functions, but certainly different thing compared to all these places designed to be simple and easy and ready-to-go.

Paypal account suspension is old news. Wide variety of underground labels and people have been targets of action and I keep amazed that people do not know that. Or know the rules. Or know what it means if you do not follow those rules, even if they seem petty and random.
Small labels have no chance. Paypal values more their "PR" than modest money they make on small business. Big companies seems to have more flexibility. Those who think it only affects the "bad people" doing "bad things" are soon probably seeing that it's like business that operates soon in sensitivity level related to social media.

I know some bigger labels are now programming new systems where part of the inventory is not available for paypal, and others are. And some stuff is visible for casual visitors, others can be only seen by customers who log in. Just trying to figure out how to not offend every dork that visits their business, and not step on paypal's toes, and also keep the customers who came to buy some interesting and juicy heavy metal. I am pretty sure that eventually it will just lead to social media doxing campaigns. "I logged in and look what I found!" + screen captures of whatever that one feels entitled to be upset about.

It is unfortunate state of underground art, that biggest corporations in the world and handling the platforms of sales, promotion and communication and implementing regulations that seemingly already affect the art itself.

If back in the day someone would have suggested future underground is in leash of multinational corporations to this extent, one would have not believed. I would advocate privately owned forums, personal websites, magazines, distributions. Industrial music for industrial people.

[Kim V]

I would advocate privately owned forums, personal websites, magazines, distributions. Industrial music for industrial people.

THIS.

[WCrap]

Most proper shop systems I have researched before starting the distro were hella expensive. Maybe things have changed. Open for recommendations (please don't say shopify or some shit).

relax, i won't recommend "shopify or some shit", as it's an outsourced shopping-system just like bigcartel as far as i know.
i myself use oscommerce which is free but needs some work to make it look ok. it's open source and has quite a large & helpful "community" of users and developers. it's autonomous and runs locally only on your system, but therefore you need to have your own webspace with php.

[deutscheasphalt]

Most proper shop systems I have researched before starting the distro were hella expensive. Maybe things have changed. Open for recommendations (please don't say shopify or some shit).

relax, i won't recommend "shopify or some shit", as it's an outsourced shopping-system just like bigcartel as far as i know.
i myself use oscommerce which is free but needs some work to make it look ok. it's open source and has quite a large & helpful "community" of users and developers. it's autonomous and runs locally only on your system, but therefore you need to have your own webspace with php.

Cool thanks, I'll check it out. The remark wasn't only directed at you, I'm open for any reasonable recommendations from anyone.

It is unfortunate state of underground art, that biggest corporations in the world and handling the platforms of sales, promotion and communication and implementing regulations that seemingly already affect the art itself.

If back in the day someone would have suggested future underground is in leash of multinational corporations to this extent, one would have not believed. I would advocate privately owned forums, personal websites, magazines, distributions. Industrial music for industrial people.

I 100% agree with everything you said in your post. I was too naive to notice paypal was taking measures this seriously and most of all I am embarassed how dependent I have become on their service. Moving everything back under ground is definitely an option at this point, just need some time to sort out a new system for myself - webpage, payment, shop integration...

I appreciate all the constructive replies so far!

[Salute]

Do you mean they dont even allow to transfer your money to your bank account ?!

Correct. And in this case we are talking about a 4 figure sum.

Yup and also cannot spend the money either. I got a notice that I can make a REQUEST for the funds after 180 days so not getting them automatically which I would think with common sense is some sort of illegal action to withdraw my money but then again in their user agreements or at least updated ones have some small print shit for this. Anyhow, luckily I had no funds on the account at the time so no loss for me except that it makes it really difficult to order stuff overseas. Then again many places have the option to pay via credit card without Paypal interference.

Also agreeing on what Freakanimal wrote, keep the circles alive in smaller, private grounds and more in the underground. We will survive, censorship of art cannot be tolerated. There is always a way to go round stupid regulations and restrictions of the multinational jewish corporations.

[Zeno Marx]

While 180 days seems absurdly excessive, it doesn't surprise me that they freeze monies.  Paypal's revenue is based on accruing interest by way of other peoples money.  Everything they do can be instantaneous, but making people wait a few days to transfer money that is rightfully theirs right now is about accruing interest.  And hey, you're just some immoral asshole, so there's no real support of your business.  Not only are they going to cut you off from their service, but they're also ballsy enough to use your money for their gain, which clearly indicates they're also immoral.

Honestly, I'm surprised 60 Minutes hasn't done a piece on PayPal.  If not out-right illegal, they do a lot of shady shit.  It would be quicker to change if they were publicly exposed rather than the unlikely chance some law office tried to battle them in court for years and years.