MISSING... But what?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Since paying more attention to younger/newer projects I've noticed a lot of 'Debordian' actors, mimicking, transparent teen angst, elementary expression of "pain", etc. A lot of histrionics and shallowness, and the artwork for these projects is also usually demonstrative of this. I think someone said it in here already but it's necessary to reiterate: visuals are equally as important as sounds. I've heard tapes and records that sounded decent but had miserable artwork and it takes away from the project for me- you could argue that this is just an issue of/with taste which is subjective and that's valid, but I'm talking about glaringly lazy artwork- shit that, when you look at it, you (even those with no graphic-lore) can tell it took little effort. A sizable amount of newer projects or 'artists' (or whatever you'd like to call them) seem like parodies of their progenitors at this point, but I think this is inevitable anywhere/everywhere. Maybe this is all just overly-pessimistic but I don't think you can or should expect everyone to carry the torch safely, the spawning of caricatures is almost always inevitable as time goes on.

Every trend in music/art is and should be based on the young generation. Only young people are able to keep music/art alive - not such old like me or Mikko and, I suppose, the most more active in this forum. I don't care what kind of tools are using, FB, PAYPAL and others, the most important is  how these tools can help in creating the power of music/art. It seems to me, but I may wrong, the younger generations of artists/composers/publishers/consumers are more passive, take the easy way out (in adopting methods from mainstream rules).... and wealthy, fat, comfortable, and complacent (in every meaning of these terms).

[JLIAT]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

It could be argued and I don't think its as clear cut as that, (as Kant would have it) but that could be what is now missing.  And there are obvious problems with elitism snobbery and such. So maybe now in the 21st C this idea of Kant's should be abandoned and ignored in favour of a purely subjective hegemony.

[BlackSunAndSteel]

visuals are equally as important as sounds. I've heard tapes and records that sounded decent but had miserable artwork and it takes away from the project for me- you could argue that this is just an issue of/with taste which is subjective and that's valid

This is debatable but valid when it comes to being your preference for consuming music. For me, music is still primarily about music, and that's why I'd say good music with glaringly lazy artwork is still preferable to the opposite, which is all too common these days.
God this fucking Mack quote is so hilarious, I hope it gets quoted a thousand more times.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

I think its fascinating how my current fan base doesn't exist on this forum but it does on IG.

How is this "fascinating"? Instagram (or any social media) can usually only work for promotion if you have followers already, so it's not at all surprising that your work isn't as widely received on a forum where you probably have little to no prior connection(s), it's more of a meritocracy situation here as opposed to a clout-chasing socialization contest there.

You the one talkin about being late to the game rookie. I came from up from nothing within the community at large and those are the facts, have your opinions on me personally and as an artist but people know who the fuck I am. I been around. I used to give a damn but I never gave a fuck fool.

You made an account so your first post was to respond to me first instead of partaking in other discussions so come at me in the PM, you little bitch. How long you been stalking me weirdo?

Beef is plenty missing at this fucking point. I love it and live for it. The stories of Jon from Slogun and his handling of individuals is incredible both on stage and off stage. Tough guy bad guy shit all day long. Thats what I dig and enjoy. Some folks like that stuff, others want a cape, a gimp mask, ski mask, or whatever it takes for them to be a superhero and fit an aesthetic and fit in with a group. A lot of folks go on about tough guy music but is it really that much worse then the kvlt caped basement dwelling dorks? I have a hard time thinking so.

Also before I forget BlackBunsOfSteel with your lover Mishima, I don't give a fuck if my shit gets quoted 1000 times over. More then anything attached to your name certainly. You know my name so have we met in real life before? I get the feeling that you think about me a lot.

[BlackSunAndSteel]

I came from up from nothing within the community at large and those are the facts, have your opinions on me personally and as an artist but people know who the fuck I am. I been around. I used to give a damn but I never gave a fuck fool.

>claims to not give a fuck
>proceeds to attempt to roast a nobody on a noise forum

I thought you were famous dude, so why act surprised that I know your name? Nah I'm just messing with ya fam (your name is public information on Discogs) and you're right - you're living rent-free in my head ever since you made that hilarious post about how insecure you are (YOU HATIN' ON IG?!? LOOk AT ALL MY EXPENSIVE GEAR MY GUY) xD

[death persuader]

I think its fascinating how my current fan base doesn't exist on this forum but it does on IG.

How is this "fascinating"? Instagram (or any social media) can usually only work for promotion if you have followers already, so it's not at all surprising that your work isn't as widely received on a forum where you probably have little to no prior connection(s), it's more of a meritocracy situation here as opposed to a clout-chasing socialization contest there.

You the one talkin about being late to the game rookie. I came from up from nothing within the community at large and those are the facts, have your opinions on me personally and as an artist but people know who the fuck I am. I been around. I used to give a damn but I never gave a fuck fool.

You made an account so your first post was to respond to me first instead of partaking in other discussions so come at me in the PM, you little bitch. How long you been stalking me weirdo?

Beef is plenty missing at this fucking point. I love it and live for it. The stories of Jon from Slogun and his handling of individuals is incredible both on stage and off stage. Tough guy bad guy shit all day long. Thats what I dig and enjoy. Some folks like that stuff, others want a cape, a gimp mask, ski mask, or whatever it takes for them to be a superhero and fit an aesthetic and fit in with a group. A lot of folks go on about tough guy music but is it really that much worse then the kvlt caped basement dwelling dorks? I have a hard time thinking so.

Also before I forget BlackBunsOfSteel with your lover Mishima, I don't give a fuck if my shit gets quoted 1000 times over. More then anything attached to your name certainly. You know my name so have we met in real life before? I get the feeling that you think about me a lot.

Is this satire?

[Bloated Slutbag]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

Maybe it could also be argued that no one has enough credit in the world to persuasively credibly argue the point and that one might therefore exist in parallel with another, possibly at the same time or at different but not far removed points in time, continuously vacillating between one and another without ever really knowing (if or if not caring).

[JLIAT]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

Maybe it could also be argued that no one has enough credit in the world to persuasively credibly argue the point and that one might therefore exist in parallel with another, possibly at the same time or at different but not far removed points in time, continuously vacillating between one and another without ever really knowing (if or if not caring).

The credit IMVHO lies in the 'thing' not in the person. Given this the idea of parallel universes, or the eternal return of the same, living in a computer simulation makes no difference. Knowing how to make a cup of coffee does.

[Bloated Slutbag]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

Maybe it could also be argued that no one has enough credit in the world to persuasively credibly argue the point and that one might therefore exist in parallel with another, possibly at the same time or at different but not far removed points in time, continuously vacillating between one and another without ever really knowing (if or if not caring).

The credit IMVHO lies in the 'thing' not in the person. Given this the idea of parallel universes, or the eternal return of the same, living in a computer simulation makes no difference. Knowing how to make a cup of coffee does.

Ohshit, I just realized I'd posted this crap to the What's Missing topic. Thought this was the hnw topic. Argh, here we go again.

Prince George (aka Bloated Slutbag), responding to Dr Johnson and his dictionary in the classic Blackadder episode- I know what words mean! You must be a bit of a thicko!

IMNSHO there are plenty of people who only think they know how to make a cup of coffee.

[JLIAT]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

Maybe it could also be argued that no one has enough credit in the world to persuasively credibly argue the point and that one might therefore exist in parallel with another, possibly at the same time or at different but not far removed points in time, continuously vacillating between one and another without ever really knowing (if or if not caring).

The credit IMVHO lies in the 'thing' not in the person. Given this the idea of parallel universes, or the eternal return of the same, living in a computer simulation makes no difference. Knowing how to make a cup of coffee does.

Ohshit, I just realized I'd posted this crap to the What's Missing topic. Thought this was the hnw topic. Argh, here we go again.

Prince George (aka Bloated Slutbag), responding to Dr Johnson and his dictionary in the classic Blackadder episode- I know what words mean! You must be a bit of a thicko!

IMNSHO there are plenty of people who only think they know how to make a cup of coffee.

I only drink Camp coffee...

[Bloated Slutbag]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

Maybe it could also be argued that no one has enough credit in the world to persuasively credibly argue the point and that one might therefore exist in parallel with another, possibly at the same time or at different but not far removed points in time, continuously vacillating between one and another without ever really knowing (if or if not caring).

The credit IMVHO lies in the 'thing' not in the person. Given this the idea of parallel universes, or the eternal return of the same, living in a computer simulation makes no difference. Knowing how to make a cup of coffee does.

Ohshit, I just realized I'd posted this crap to the What's Missing topic. Thought this was the hnw topic. Argh, here we go again.

Prince George (aka Bloated Slutbag), responding to Dr Johnson and his dictionary in the classic Blackadder episode- I know what words mean! You must be a bit of a thicko!

IMNSHO there are plenty of people who only think they know how to make a cup of coffee.

I only drink Camp coffee...

I hope this is not a concession that taste can (if sometimes) define the thing? That'd be worrisome.

[JLIAT]

I was late to find noise, but the biggest reason behind the intrigue for me was how perfect the medium was/is to express genuine malcontent, disgust, despondency, etc.

1) It could be argued that the above may relate to Industrial and Power Electronics but not to Noise. That this lack of communication is what differentiates Noise from these other genres. That the very nature of noise prevents communication, and so is generally elsewhere unwanted. What is missing in noise is any meaning in the noise itself. If any is to be given the "Artist" has to resort to packaging.

That in the work of the originators, Merzbow, The Rita, Vomir et al. there is no (obvious) expression.

2 ) It could be further argued that what differentiates personal 'taste' from 'Art' is that the former is mere sensation the latter a disinterested aesthetic contemplation and judgement of a work. That the former is simply a 'style' to produce some sensual response and the latter a genre which provokes an aesthetic experience. And such indeterminate judgements can be universal, unlike 'taste'.  This then delineates 'Art' from self (or anything other) expression.

3) In the case of noise, 'Noise' marks such a move from style and self expression to 'Art'. Hence the academic interest.

Maybe it could also be argued that no one has enough credit in the world to persuasively credibly argue the point and that one might therefore exist in parallel with another, possibly at the same time or at different but not far removed points in time, continuously vacillating between one and another without ever really knowing (if or if not caring).

The credit IMVHO lies in the 'thing' not in the person. Given this the idea of parallel universes, or the eternal return of the same, living in a computer simulation makes no difference. Knowing how to make a cup of coffee does.

Ohshit, I just realized I'd posted this crap to the What's Missing topic. Thought this was the hnw topic. Argh, here we go again.

Prince George (aka Bloated Slutbag), responding to Dr Johnson and his dictionary in the classic Blackadder episode- I know what words mean! You must be a bit of a thicko!

IMNSHO there are plenty of people who only think they know how to make a cup of coffee.

I only drink Camp coffee...

I hope this is not a concession that taste can (if sometimes) define the thing? That'd be worrisome.

Your hopes are dashed, at least as i see it for Kant. He said that Marmite is about mere sensation and taste - and that defines it, you get it immediately, whereas Rembrandt's paintings you need to deliberate and apply judgement, i.e. your head rather than your tongue.  (it would be foolish to lick a Rembrandt, and probably get you arrested) I'm more flexible (err un certain / stupid) and less the category type. (There is a book called Kant and the platypus by some Italian dude...)

[Soloman Tump]

many (including me) see this more as a Freak Animal / though guy noise forum, not as a regular noise forum for everyone. But yes, voicing different views and opinions is a necessary one and also why everybody should do their own thing and not be limited by the imaginary boundaries of a genre or aesthetic created or envisioned by someone else.

I am familiar with this being quite common view, although I don't necessarily see it would have to be so.

To my knowledge, there are lots of people who appreciate the "dark side of noise" (so to say)- on level of admiring work of artists etc, but at this moment absolutely hesitate to discuss of it in public, due not wanting it to surface in form of screen captures and gossip even years later. They rather opt private message groups with people they know, than public discussion. It is of course good way too, but may reduce the dissemination of information. All that knowledge and information that could have resulted even interesting printed zine, will disappear. Does it really matter - is of course different debate.

Instead of engagement on here we have people who basically await the "leaders" to make topics and then they discuss them.

Which is partially true and also unfortunate. I would certainly like to see topics like "best chocolate monk releases", "recommended Tomutonttu albums" or such, emerge. There is absolutely nothing that stops opening new topics on other things than so called tough guy noise. It was original intent of SI to try merge the splintered and fragmented things, to be the "scene" where Sudden Infant & Genocide Organ would co-exist side by side, so to say with using known names as example. While it seemed to be vaguely fruitful goal 10-15 years ago, I don't see potential for that anymore. At least not in wider scale. Locally and in some other small framing, this of course comes out naturally.

Some really interesting discussion in this thread (and some not so...)

My thoughts in response to the above: At what point do you become accepted in a niche forum such as this? I have started a couple of "discussion" topics with zero replies. I respond to a few topics where I feel I have sufficient knowledge to do so.  I still very much feel like a rookie in the scene, although keen to continue learning which is why I see this forum as a valuable source of information.

I make use of Instagram to network and learn about labels / scenes from around the globe.  Without it, I would not know of many things that are not discussed here or at noisewiki.  I know it is basically facebook anon but it works for me.  I ditched my FB account about 4 years ago now.

IG is a very useful tool.  Sold quite a few zines because of it. Maybe sold 1 or 2 zines per issue because of this forum.  I can reach a wider audience using IG hashtags than I can from posting on here, Whilst sales are not important for zines (I aimed to break even, which I mainly did) it was more about the percolation of ideas and sharing of information.  I would often trade / give away as many copies as I sold.  Which I felt was great.  Lucky enough to have a decent paying job that can allow me to do this. Time became a difficult factor however...

Nota bene, have now suspended making "Snare Rush" zine and am focusing on making my sounds as Soloman Tump.  I felt my creative energies for zines was dwindling and have had an increasing urge to record sound.  Might return to the zine one day though.  I put a LOT of effort into making Snare Rush, and would often feel a dark depression / pressure on getting the content right for an audience that I could not predict.  The zine did not focus on any particular genre other than what I was listening to at the time - therefore not enough noise to be considered a noise zine.  And not enough techno for anyone who considers themselves a techno head to want to bother reading it.  May refocus my attentions one day. 

[jbalsinek]

A Troniks/Chondritic Sound recollections forum thread could be an entertaining read. One of the stories that I loved from it was this very troubled teenager who joined and started sharing videos of him making vocal noise screaming into his computer's microphone in his messy bedroom. RRRon sort of pulled him under his wing and gave him some encouragement (he may have even made a Recycled tape for his project?), and everyone else tried to offer him some genuine help and support too. He evidently had some serious emotional/personal problems though, and due to all the chaos in his home life, his parents in sheer desperation told him that they were going to send him off to military school - subsequently he disappeared from the forum. A few years later, he came back on the forum out of the blue to post about how joining the military was the BEST thing that could ever happen in his life. He gained discipline and earned a high rank/position (I think he ultimately got recruited into the Navy SEALs?), got to travel the world and do cool things in life that he never could have dreamed of, made lifelong friends and started a family. He shared some cool photos, thanked everyone who helped and encouraged him whilst he was still dabbling in noise, and then disappeared again. Very inspiring to read. I hope he's still keeping well wherever he is these days.

I remember him and the story from the forums. Went by Robert something. I believe one of his projects was called Deadly Orifice? I thought it all happened on the Noiseman433 forum but I guess it was Chondritic or Troniks, it's all a bit of a blur for me...
https://www.noisewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=DEADLY_ORIFICE

And yes, I hope he's still okay wherever he is as well.

[aububs]

deadly orifice is a different person

but they do have a release on rrr