MISSING... But what?

[holy ghost]

Maybe the last 5-7 or so years, for me at least, with Instagram is that you realize how HUGE noise is and how many different little niche scenes there are out there. Maybe social media has opened my eyes to that, perhaps it's a consequence of everyone being into everything now, I know (hey I'm 40 the average age for noise people) I would never want to consider myself defined as "this" or "that" simply because I just like too many things and hey, because I'm 40 and who gives a shit about how you're defined? Oh sorry now they call it "your brand".

I know when in the mid 2000's I discovered The Rita, Vomir, etc it seemed so far removed from even other noise stuff like Wolf Eyes or MITB or the Merzbow/Release stuff or even Sunn O))) even though everything was interconnected, it felt like about 50 other people were into the same stuff. It obviously wasn't the case, but you rarely get that feeling of "discovering" exciting fresh things any more. Even the rate Italian prog record you hear is due for a deluxe 180g vinyl reissue and everyone heard about it last year.

No hate on social media - I like Instagram as much as the next loser for noise related stuff. And I am constantly fucking up my wife's spotify algorithm by sampling stuff I want to hear.... that being said I buy a shitload of tapes and records and I'm always finding cool stuff to listen to.

tldr nothing feels "special" anymore and we're not unique

[Balor/SS1535]

tldr nothing feels "special" anymore and we're not unique

Maybe that is why labels like Goatowarex and Wrath (small runs, fancy packaging) are so popular now.

[Zeno Marx]

It seems to me that what a lot of people are hinting at, or brushing up against, is the sense that there is less culture.  Maybe we have an anthropologist or two in here to better dig into that?  Not less community, as so many of us have anti-social tendencies, yet we obviously still have interest in other human activity.  Anti-socials proving we are indeed social beings.  Rousseau would be jazzed with that irony, or at least I think he would be.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

It seems to me that what a lot of people are hinting at, or brushing up against, is the sense that there is less culture.  Maybe we have an anthropologist or two in here to better dig into that?  Not less community, as so many of us have anti-social tendencies, yet we obviously still have interest in other human activity.  Anti-socials proving we are indeed social beings.  Rousseau would be jazzed with that irony, or at least I think he would be.

I guess there is too much culture.. but less a true, new and transgressive art.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I actually hesitated to pick that up, not for the name but because I was only familiar with the (admittedly quite rrrripping) Aprapat half. Duly sample via bandcamp and once that first metal-on-metal whang whangs home- instant wood.

I had a bit of a listen, too. Didn't do much for me. I prefer Aprapat, what I've heard.

[Strangecross]

what's missing is strength of character via artistic endeavors and social fluency.
and if there is anything the history of noise has taught us it is that external forces (ie: social media, mass culture) have nothing to do with it.

[Baglady]

what's missing is strength of character via artistic endeavors and social fluency.

This.
And more in-depth discussion and proper writing. Feels kinda sad when someone has worked hard for months or even years on an album, and the only comments the album gets are "This shit slaps", "Scorcher!", "Flame emoji" or whatever in some instagram post or on a forum board. Sure there are some rather well written reviews and (almost) articles here on this board for example, but it's mostly just spontaneous comments. There are a handful of zines, and some of them are great. But they need to be more in numbers, and they need to differ from eachother with different takes, angles, content, aesthetics (blacknwhite semi-abstract xerox art is nice, but for fucks sake...)... That's what I'm missing; more diverse writing that elevates noise just a little bit above something you indulge in to pass two hours after supper before bedtime.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

what's missing is strength of character via artistic endeavors and social fluency.

This.
And more in-depth discussion and proper writing. Feels kinda sad when someone has worked hard for months or even years on an album, and the only comments the album gets are "This shit slaps", "Scorcher!", "Flame emoji" or whatever in some instagram post or on a forum board. Sure there are some rather well written reviews and (almost) articles here on this board for example, but it's mostly just spontaneous comments. There are a handful of zines, and some of them are great. But they need to be more in numbers, and they need to differ from eachother with different takes, angles, content, aesthetics (blacknwhite semi-abstract xerox art is nice, but for fucks sake...)... That's what I'm missing; more diverse writing that elevates noise just a little bit above something you indulge in to pass two hours after supper before bedtime.

I could write - do it youself! ;) Use free - blog-sites and other places... I know not everyone has got possibilities to write, not everyone can create music etc., but, if there is such possibility, why not to try? Besides, I suppose that there isn't so big need reading anything. Most of so called noise/industrial enthusiasts don't care about that.

[Baglady]

what's missing is strength of character via artistic endeavors and social fluency.

This.
And more in-depth discussion and proper writing. Feels kinda sad when someone has worked hard for months or even years on an album, and the only comments the album gets are "This shit slaps", "Scorcher!", "Flame emoji" or whatever in some instagram post or on a forum board. Sure there are some rather well written reviews and (almost) articles here on this board for example, but it's mostly just spontaneous comments. There are a handful of zines, and some of them are great. But they need to be more in numbers, and they need to differ from eachother with different takes, angles, content, aesthetics (blacknwhite semi-abstract xerox art is nice, but for fucks sake...)... That's what I'm missing; more diverse writing that elevates noise just a little bit above something you indulge in to pass two hours after supper before bedtime.

I could write - do it youself! ;) Use free - blog-sites and other places... I know not everyone has got possibilities to write, not everyone can create music etc., but, if there is such possibility, why not to try? Besides, I suppose that there isn't so big need reading anything. Most of so called noise/industrial enthusiasts don't care about that.

I am working on a printed thing after a decade of just writing reviews and thoughts in my notebooks. But while that is rewarding even without an audience (yet), I need others to write more so I have something to read. For me it has always been good writing that have kept me interested and curious in the genres I'm into. Something to bounce my own thoughts and views against.

[W.K.]

what's missing is strength of character via artistic endeavors and social fluency.

This.
There are a handful of zines, and some of them are great. But they need to be more in numbers, and they need to differ from eachother with different takes, angles, content, aesthetics (blacknwhite semi-abstract xerox art is nice, but for fucks sake...)... That's what I'm missing; more diverse writing that elevates noise just a little bit above something you indulge in to pass two hours after supper before bedtime.

I decided not to involve anymore in the discussions on the forum, but this hits a nerve and is even what is missing on this forum, although maybe not because many (including me) see this more as a Freak Animal / though guy noise forum, not as a regular noise forum for everyone. But yes, voicing different views and opinions is a necessary one and also why everybody should do their own thing and not be limited by the imaginary boundaries of a genre or aesthetic created or envisioned by someone else. But then, there are so much different things already happening that the only problem I see is that communication has yet been changed, from more interconnected forum culture to a more individualistic social media culture. And if everyone is doing it's own thing, it's obviously harder to connect for bigger events and world-wide happenings.

But as someone that only got into noise 10 years ago I never witnessed the 'golden days' of noise. And sure, reading about it sounds thrilling and the liveliness is something that's very different from today, and even I do miss going to record shops and be thrilled to see Merzbow or a slow MP3 download at the beginning ages of the internet, the obscurity of projects and bands with no information to be found on the internet and ordering obscure CD-R's from Russia from names I couldn't even decipher..........but there are so many interesting things happening today, complaining about noise not being the same as yesterday sounds like old-farts shouting to clouds in the sky because the weather is not as nice as yesterday.

[Japsi]

Dissemination and intercourse is not wanking - mutual or otherwise.  If you and whoever you agree with think its wanking to argue that Throbbing Gristle were not industrial is wanking.... i can go with this.  "Fuck off with your intellectual discourse " yes bring on Trump and the Taliban. They know what's what ...

Yes the OP is right - something is missing. Reason, common sense and politeness.  Oh and innovation- sorry guys..

I didn't even have an issue with Impulsy, in fact I quite enjoy his writing on this area. You, on the other hand, seem like a pompous, purposefully contrarian ass.

Your presence on every forum seems to lead to situations exactly like this. Have you considered why that might be?

The fact that you inexplicably throw Trump and the Taliban into your reply is just bizarre.

If you want to have a discussion about the semantics of "Industrial", go start a thread or discuss it privately.

You derailed a useful discussion, plain and simple,

[cosmonaut]

[/quote]It's funny it is being read that way.  I do agree with your conclusion, though.  You read it as intellectual discourse, and I read it as nihilism in the form of verbosity, which absolutely arrived at the same deathly place.
[/quote]

Aha, at least the younger folks here get a taste of how the golden era of alt.noise and rec.music.industrial felt like. Maybe Soddy (whom I remember from those days on alt.noise, and iirc also Nick was around) can confirm. But maybe my memory fails me and it was really different.

As a side note —and not as a conversation starter, as unfortunately I am time-constrained—I believe nothing is really missing, other than the realisation that noise/industrial/PE is now (and has been for a long while) a well established and diverse subculture, kinda like, say, jazz or blues. A subculture which  plays a central role in the lives of many here (for me that's the case for sure). Or if you want, that makes them feel alive. (A nice recent addition imho is that there are a lot of pretty girls contributing to the scene, and they were sadly almost non existent back in the 1990s.)

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

Whats missing imho is ultimately peoples fear of saying the wrong thing. Going off of GEWALTMONOPOL mentioning snobbery, I think this is what is making people shy to discuss things. Especially on this message board with people who are considered "elite". Going off of Zeno Mark stating that most of us are "anti-social" yet we love to come here to chat it makes sense. Instead of engagement on here we have people who basically await the "leaders" to make topics and then they discuss them. Its very much a social club whether or not people want to think it is.

[Theodore]

You derailed a useful discussion, plain and simple,

Please show how it was useful.

It was useful cause it was interesting for me to read peoples 'simple' opinions on this matter based on their feelings. Read collapsedhole's post for example. Something that is personal, something that i can relate to, something that i enjoy to read. Yours, i cant even read ! Dont know if you write the biggest 'truths' in there, i cant follow all this blah blah, i dont care and i dont think anyone asked for a philosophical analysis ! Neither for a 'solution' , as you probably mean by 'useful' ! We asked for personal opinions ... not bibliography. - And that's not even the problem. Problem is you go on and on and on ... You dont stop man !

Bringing Trump and Taliban here. Makes sense. It's you who had brought holocaust and seeing everywhere racists in the covid thread, isnt it ?

Come on ! Let others speak. You dont have to answer everything. Dont educate me more please.

[Bloated Slutbag]

<re- The New Boyfriends>

I actually hesitated to pick that up, not for the name but because I was only familiar with the (admittedly quite rrrripping) Aprapat half. Duly sample via bandcamp and once that first metal-on-metal whang whangs home- instant wood.

I had a bit of a listen, too. Didn't do much for me. I prefer Aprapat, what I've heard.

It's been in fairly regular rotation since tape plonked into deck a couple weeks ago. I think I would initially have agreed on the superiority of Aprapat alone. But also having already been so enamored of Aprapat, further benefits of potential doubts would doubtless be extended anything the project is involved with.

But I just don't think I can emphasize enough how much wood that initial whanging stirred up. Even during the intervals where interest might otherwise be inclined to flag, there's still that suspense that further wood-bestirring whangs are around the corner at any second. By the second or third time through it dawns on me I am a convert, and I'm probably cribbing from the imaginary notes I was writing in my head the other day so excuse the gushing. And maybe I'm too easy to please, but I'm going to sneak into the end of this sentence that, since I first rolled into this shit however many moons ago till now, nothing has ever felt to me to be missing.

From life, yes. Noise, no.