Tough Guy PE/Industrial

Started by HONOR_IS_KING!, July 07, 2020, 09:16:27 PM

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murderous_vision


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Often people use this phrase to dismiss things they simply don't like or refuse to understand.

Quite interesting how everyone thinks that spree shooters relates to toughness. I had mentioned earlier the album is an exploration in deep issues in regards to ownership of guns and gun control within America. Don't understand how that tug of war relates to toughness but if you also don't live in America I wouldn't expect you to understand.
[/quote]

Weird to correlate some pussy with a gun to being tough. I agree. In most instances, using a gun to execute your anger against someone is weak as fuck. As a rural kid, I certainly owned and lived around several guns. They were used as a tool. Exacting anger manifested the old fashioned way. With fists. Implying that shooting people at distance is in any way "tough" is completely fucking laughable...

XXX

ok let me rephrase this for you meat heads

artsy noise people think anything to do with violence or sex is "tough guy pe shit" they think its tough guy shit cause YOU the listener are being a "tough guy"


its not a genre at all its literally just a catch all for those outside the scene. talking about murder & sex & underbelly of life to many is just edgelord posturing.

holy ghost

You could break it (PE? "edgy stuff"?) down into like three broad categories:

1) edgy white guys (the balaclava & AK47 xeroxed artwork guys "pushing boundaries") with the pics of junkies, prostitutes, a pic of a severed head on some bedbug infested mattress.... fade in the MS20 synth drone and the flanged vocals, some yelling, fade it out again, maybe a sample from youtube..... 86.5%?

2) PE from the "outsider" perspective - documenting or a commentary on the horrors or war, urban blight, addiction - maybe upgrade to an Arturia synth but sounds the same..... 13%?

3) guys who've "lived that life" and are now making PE....  0.5%?

awwfn


HONOR_IS_KING!

Quote from: Duncan on July 08, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 08, 2020, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: theotherjohn on July 08, 2020, 02:49:49 AM
beyond the shock factor

Often people use this phrase to dismiss things they simply don't like or refuse to understand.

And just as often other people use that response to avoid engaging with genuine criticism of their work. Vicious cycle of conversational unwillingness and the inability of people in either direction to support their claims beyond a few stock phrases.

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 08, 2020, 06:36:30 PM
Quite interesting how everyone thinks that spree shooters relates to toughness. I had mentioned earlier the album is an exploration in deep issues in regards to ownership of guns and gun control within America.

Who is 'everyone'?

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 08, 2020, 06:36:30 PM
Don't understand how that tug of war relates to toughness but if you also don't live in America I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I don't think geography is the only reason someone might argue that the album, or any other, misses the mark of demonstrating an in depth exploration of its given subject and, speaking seriously, this is where the whole argument of 'toughness' is quite important. The notion (or accusation) of toughness in PE/Industrial doesn't, I think, stem from a given theme or topic some one particular artist is trying to talk about but rather the fact this the music is more often than not characterised by aggressive, forceful sounds & heavily processed, screamed vocals etc etc etc. We can argue about whether that's good, bad or tough for as long as we want and it'll probably just be a matter of taste and opinion. You can however question whether that formula really allows an artist to demonstrate in depth commentary or exploration of ANY topic if it's methodology and delivery is based entirely on a fairly narrow pool of emotive or narrative tools.



Everyone is every person in the thread that has equated "spree shooting" to tough guy.

More then willing to engage on the topic, you are the one who seems dismissive.

Also you are judging an album based on its title, cover, and not its content.
KOUFAR x TERROR CELL UNIT
https://soundcloud.com/crimesofthecrown

PSALM 109

HONOR_IS_KING!

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 08, 2020, 08:48:52 PM
Basically anything I do, could be filed among "tough guy noise". I take it with pride.

Word up.
KOUFAR x TERROR CELL UNIT
https://soundcloud.com/crimesofthecrown

PSALM 109

Duncan

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 09, 2020, 06:24:36 PM
Quote from: Duncan on July 08, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 08, 2020, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: theotherjohn on July 08, 2020, 02:49:49 AM
beyond the shock factor

Often people use this phrase to dismiss things they simply don't like or refuse to understand.

And just as often other people use that response to avoid engaging with genuine criticism of their work. Vicious cycle of conversational unwillingness and the inability of people in either direction to support their claims beyond a few stock phrases.

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 08, 2020, 06:36:30 PM
Quite interesting how everyone thinks that spree shooters relates to toughness. I had mentioned earlier the album is an exploration in deep issues in regards to ownership of guns and gun control within America.

Who is 'everyone'?

Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on July 08, 2020, 06:36:30 PM
Don't understand how that tug of war relates to toughness but if you also don't live in America I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I don't think geography is the only reason someone might argue that the album, or any other, misses the mark of demonstrating an in depth exploration of its given subject and, speaking seriously, this is where the whole argument of 'toughness' is quite important. The notion (or accusation) of toughness in PE/Industrial doesn't, I think, stem from a given theme or topic some one particular artist is trying to talk about but rather the fact this the music is more often than not characterised by aggressive, forceful sounds & heavily processed, screamed vocals etc etc etc. We can argue about whether that's good, bad or tough for as long as we want and it'll probably just be a matter of taste and opinion. You can however question whether that formula really allows an artist to demonstrate in depth commentary or exploration of ANY topic if it's methodology and delivery is based entirely on a fairly narrow pool of emotive or narrative tools.



Everyone is every person in the thread that has equated "spree shooting" to tough guy.

More then willing to engage on the topic, you are the one who seems dismissive.

Also you are judging an album based on its title, cover, and not its content.

I've heard the album

theotherjohn

In fairness, it wasn't me who brought the subject up of guns in regards to toughness in the first place in this topic (nor was it you HONOR_IS_KING!, but you felt compelled to address it and reinforce the association inadvertently). Seemingly, we can all agree then that operating a gun is not related to toughness? If so, that means we're at least coming closer to a definition of what this so far rather vague thread relates to, even if it's by process of elimination...

And not to keep going on about them, but I've actually had a brief but unique opportunity to handle, load and fire them with live ammunition rounds here in the UK in a past job that offered rare access to a place usually only reserved for specialised police or military training. Due to my complete inexperience, I just did limited target shooting with an understandably intimidating ex-Army guy supervising me, but I still have more real world experience with an AK47 than your average Limey who has only used one whilst playing Call Of Duty. Did I feel like a tough guy for firing a gun? Quite the opposite, it scared the fuck out of me! The sensory experience taught me that I wouldn't enjoy being on either end of the barrel personally, least of all if I was in the company of someone with a traumatic history or agenda. Even so, I wish the majority of the public had a similar opportunity to operate one safely outside of a recreational or entertainment situation, if only to know how powerful and destructive they can be in a split second. My utmost respect goes out to professionals who handle and use them on a daily basis, and who deal with life and death decisions every working day.

Atrophist

"Acting tough" is just as lame as acting like you are anything else: smart, knowledgeable, spiritual, artistic, sexy, whatever. Focus on accepting that you are who you are, rather than trying to come across as something else. 99% of humanity are going to hate you anyway, so what's the point of pretending?

Call me a stick-in-the-mud if you want, but I don't like to be included in a performance without my previous knowledge or consent. I can handle being screamed at, or shoved, or having crap thrown at me from the stage, but I'm not going to put up with actually being assaulted or spat at without retaliating.


Balor/SS1535

Quote from: Atrophist on July 12, 2020, 12:31:48 AM
Call me a stick-in-the-mud if you want, but I don't like to be included in a performance without my previous knowledge or consent. I can handle being screamed at, or shoved, or having crap thrown at me from the stage, but I'm not going to put up with actually being assaulted or spat at without retaliating.

I wonder how many people who try to "act tough" in such a manner end up with unpleasant surprises when audiences get annoyed by their antics!

FreakAnimalFinland

Couple example of this:

Con-Dom talking about performance he did in Taiwan. Harassing the crowd, and being delighted that one female started to fight back. She would not take the "abuse" as accepted performance, but treat it like being abused in "real world" so to say. I don't remember how he described it, but there was some sort of notion of spark of resistance ignited by performance. Expected roles of performer and audience broken. artist doing something without consent, yep, I assume so - but that is mandatory element of that particular performance. It was not harm and damage to audience member, but something enough to ignite authentic feeling.

Finnish short lived PE trio performed show in one of the early private shows in Helsinki. big venue, large open space with various kind of people attending. When everybody do not know eachother, "actions with audience" has notch more relevance. There would be nothing worse than "acting tough" for 15 close friends. Haha. It would be plain silly. As opposite, focusing energy on performance could happen in almost "youth crew" type of group spirit - like Fire/In/The/Head did. He would not attack the crow, but actually always fall backwards to crowd while screaming. Crowd would not be dodging attacks, but actually involve in live gig in form of support. Like one big mosh-pit, where energy is most of all... positive?
Anyways, back to the Finnish band. One of the commando masked men approached audience, pushed first couple of guys like lame thug inciting streetfight. He got smashed in the head with beer can and stumpled few feet backwards and returned to stage. Haha. Absolutely nothing against any of the artists, but situation was classic display that acting or even "being" tough, has the element that there is always tougher guy few feets away. If you are not up to challenge, then other approach is better.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
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HONOR_IS_KING!

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 12, 2020, 09:36:49 AM
Couple example of this:

Con-Dom talking about performance he did in Taiwan. Harassing the crowd, and being delighted that one female started to fight back. She would not take the "abuse" as accepted performance, but treat it like being abused in "real world" so to say. I don't remember how he described it, but there was some sort of notion of spark of resistance ignited by performance. Expected roles of performer and audience broken. artist doing something without consent, yep, I assume so - but that is mandatory element of that particular performance. It was not harm and damage to audience member, but something enough to ignite authentic feeling.

To quote him as best from my memory "She wasn't like the 99% who didn't do anything, she was apart of the 1% who will stand up for themselves."
KOUFAR x TERROR CELL UNIT
https://soundcloud.com/crimesofthecrown

PSALM 109

Rubby

Con-Dom is about the only act I can think of whose work does not wither in the shadow of "tough guy" theatrics. I feel like anyone who deliberately physically accosts the audience is an emotionally stunted man baby who falsely equates negative reaction to meaning their performance art is over the audience's head. In actually , it's just that punching me is not gonna make your unoriginal PE any better.

XXX


impulse manslaughter

Actually, I never met any tough guy street-fighting types listening to noise or PE. I like Con-dom but this artsy pushing around is really nothing. The Slogun act feels a bit forced to me and is certainly not intimidating or dangerous. I've been to (mostly punk)shows where massive fights broke out, people were stabbed or seriously hurt by flying beer bottles. I saw a face smashed to pulp with a guitar, a feet first stagedive that broke a girls neck and I watched a guy being beaten into a coma with a bar stool. Can't say I was enjoying all this but sometimes I miss these spontaneous outbursts of aggression that were real, dangerous and certainly not staged. It all seems to be about creating an inclusive safe space these days which is probably a good thing but also really boring.