Tough Guy PE/Industrial

[collapsedhole]

...
likewise if a PE band makes some multicultural humanist peace and love anthem... personally i just wouldnt call it PE. the spirit counts for something, and counts a lot when differentiating nuances between the genres that fall under the blanket of 'noise'. and with PE that spirit should be ugly, violent, mean, intolerant, uncomfortable, depraved ...

Just to make sure I understood your point: if you consider the energy and the attitude in PE to be the decisive factor, would music that has the requisite spirit, but not the "typical" PE sound, still to be within the PE spectrum?

certainly not always the decisive factor. but definitely in some cases. when comparing very similar yet intrinsically different forms of noise, it all has to get factored in. of course i wouldn't call any type of nasty noise power electronics unless all the parts are working together... which is usually a conscious choice done deliberately by the artist to make sure they are either lumped in with, or differentiated from, PE.

[Atrophist]

I think you're being deliberately disingenuous.

What makes you think so?

I assure you that I am genuinely curious. It's interesting to me how people view these things.

[Atrophist]

certainly not always the decisive factor. but definitely in some cases. when comparing very similar yet intrinsically different forms of noise, it all has to get factored in. of course i wouldn't call any type of nasty noise power electronics unless all the parts are working together... which is usually a conscious choice done deliberately by the artist to make sure they are either lumped in with, or differentiated from, PE.

Okay, thanks. Genre definitions and "what makes X, X" discussions are always ... ("cough, cough") problematic for me. In a sense, as soon as you identify yourself as opetating within a certain genre, you sre basically admitting that you want to sound like someone who came before you. Not that there is anything wrong with that as such, but it certainly would seem to be at odds with the idea of appreciating and seeking originality in everything that is so prevalent today. These discussions never end, because sooner or later someone who disagrees will come along, and there will be nothing that will reasonably make that person's opinion less valid than anybody else's.

[Balor/SS1535]

...
likewise if a PE band makes some multicultural humanist peace and love anthem... personally i just wouldnt call it PE. the spirit counts for something, and counts a lot when differentiating nuances between the genres that fall under the blanket of 'noise'. and with PE that spirit should be ugly, violent, mean, intolerant, uncomfortable, depraved ...

Just to make sure I understood your point: if you consider the energy and the attitude in PE to be the decisive factor, would music that has the requisite spirit, but not the "typical" PE sound, still to be within the PE spectrum?

This is interesting, and it makes me think of the live split album that came out a few years ago between Axnaar, Roases, Bizarre Uproar, and Xenophobic Ejaculation. Axnaar is definitely noisy black metal, but has an attitude/style that fits perfectly alongside power electronics.

[APPLE]

likewise if a PE band makes some multicultural humanist peace and love anthem... personally i just wouldnt call it PE.

Con-Dom 'ebony & ivory' could fit this description. On face value, at least.

the spirit counts for something, and counts a lot when differentiating nuances between the genres that fall under the blanket of 'noise'. and with PE that spirit should be ugly, violent, mean, intolerant, uncomfortable, depraved ...

What would you consider the likes of Shallow Waters, Barrikad, Mourmansk150?

I do appreciate where you are coming from, but there is no reason that content from Streicher (right), Militia (left) and Con Dom (neither) should not share space on the same release (War Against Society). Or not be considered different iterations of the same substance.

[Olegh Kolyada]

"Tough Guy" by Beastie Boys from an all-time classic "Ill Communication".)

[collapsedhole]

the spirit counts for something, and counts a lot when differentiating nuances between the genres that fall under the blanket of 'noise'. and with PE that spirit should be ugly, violent, mean, intolerant, uncomfortable, depraved ...

What would you consider the likes of Shallow Waters, Barrikad, Mourmansk150?

i'd consider shallow waters the most straight up PE of those three of course. i have only heard comp tracks from the other two, but from what i remember theyre on that aforementioned 'PE spectrum'.

political affiliation doesn't really matter - as long as there is anger, frustration, disgust, tension... some exploration of... power... either as the oppressed or the oppressor... well as long as the content deals with a topic that really warrants such emotions... if i was really pissed off about having to wear a mask in public because of coronavirus that would be silly no matter how pissed i truely was about it. then we get into real hair splitting about personal ideals, what is actually silly... too much thought, not enough PE, haha... in that case the point would already be missed!

i was slightly exaggerating in my statement of 'peace and love anthem'... surely anyone genuinely interested in spreading that message can find a more appropriate genre then PE to get that across, i can't really think of any happy go lucky PE tracks.

[Cranial Blast]

To me "tough guy" PE just means by default "normal guy" who isn't wearing all modern styled clear framed glasses on a soy diet, who looks like good ole indrogenious Pat! Like much of the modern "wimps" of today maybe? That's my imagination of that sentiment or take away if you will.

[Commander15]

To me "tough guy" PE just means by default "normal guy" who isn't wearing all modern styled clear framed glasses on a soy diet, who looks like good ole indrogenious Pat! Like much of the modern "wimps" of today maybe? That's my imagination of that sentiment or take away if you will.

I think that "tough guy" PE, or "kovisnoise", is more about the themes, general vibe and appreance of some "modern" PE artists than someones diet or beverage preferences.

For example, in Finland almost no one would recognize the IFOTS, Whitehouse or Genocide Organ as "tough guy" PE, but something like Sadio, XE, Grunt and F&V stuff in general would be the perfect embodiment of that idiom.

[Bigsby]

has it already been noted that tough guy is often an insult in the states? It denotes posturing. It usually either means something like "you're just talk" or "yea, you're clearly capable of tremendous violence, but you are dumb as fuck." I think it's american idiomatic and you'd have to hear the tone but I wonder if it's used that way elsewhere?

[Commander15]

has it already been noted that tough guy is often an insult in the states? It denotes posturing. It usually either means something like "you're just talk" or "yea, you're clearly capable of tremendous violence, but you are dumb as fuck." I think it's american idiomatic and you'd have to hear the tone but I wonder if it's used that way elsewhere?

Yeah, it is also somewhat an insult term here too. Mainly in sarcastic sense and tone, implying that the percieved "tough guy" antics are applied for cheap provocation or posing purposes