"Human all too Human"

[Zeno Marx]

Got involved in a similar conversation this morning.  Anti-intellectualism has always been an issue in the "underground", be it noise, punk, metal, or whatever.  The more normalized they've become, the more I've noticed it.  I'm guessing it is that blue collar reflex from joylessness, self-loathing, or inferiority complex they manifest into the universe.  Don't want to get too speculative or psychological with it.  I just know its presence.  Like with the rest of the world and things, that voice has become louder (again) in the past few years.

[host body]

But how does one escape the tragedies of the 21-century?
It's impossible.

Rope and a stool

[host body]

People who complain about the 21st century are delusional. Things have never been better for more people than now. If you'd have lived 100 years ago, chances are you would have been dirt poor, forced to do menial labour until you died an early death due to disease. People who moan about how modern life is hell like to imagine themselves as being somehow above the rest of us, and keep that status in their daydreams of past life. Delusional.

If you feel modern life serves no purpose, shut off your smartphone and computer and all home appliances and dig ditches for a month. I doubt you'll like it, hah.

[JLIAT]

Got involved in a similar conversation this morning.  Anti-intellectualism has always been an issue in the "underground", be it noise, punk, metal, or whatever.  The more normalized they've become, the more I've noticed it....

I think this is part of a process where a genre, which is created out or from some reason, reaction... becomes a style in which the original motivation for producing the genre is no longer significant. Once a style the issues / problems become technique, how does X get that sound... as opposed to Why does X make that sound.

Along with this is the idea or style of 'retro'.  

[JLIAT]

People who complain about the 21st century are delusional. Things have never been better for more people than now. If you'd have lived 100 years ago, chances are you would have been dirt poor, forced to do menial labour until you died an early death due to disease.

100 years ago if you had survived WW1 you would be in the middle of a pandemic.... and heading for mass unemployment and economic collapse..
We seem to have avoided the war and will wait and see about Covid. But all things considered 2020 was a surprise... and we've 3+ months to go ...

People who moan about how modern life is hell like to imagine themselves as being somehow above the rest of us, and keep that status in their daydreams of past life. Delusional.

If you feel modern life serves no purpose, shut off your smartphone and computer and all home appliances and dig ditches for a month. I doubt you'll like it, hah.

I tend to think life has no purpose, which is a problem. But in the main i think you are right, given anytime in history to live i'd probably pick now.

[host body]

People who moan about how modern life is hell like to imagine themselves as being somehow above the rest of us, and keep that status in their daydreams of past life. Delusional.

If you feel modern life serves no purpose, shut off your smartphone and computer and all home appliances and dig ditches for a month. I doubt you'll like it, hah.

I tend to think life has no purpose, which is a problem. But in the main i think you are right, given anytime in history to live i'd probably pick now.

Exactly, life has no purpose. You make your purpose, and I truly pity everyone who's life's purpose seems seems to be moaning online how their life has no purpose, hah. Or how they were born too late, or how everything sucks etc. We've (talking as a european, not true for everyone living right now) never had a better chance of shaping our lives how we choose, yet even all this freedom and stability makes many people anxious. Maybe humans aren't really meant to feel happy and fulfilled? I don't know, I just feel now is the golden age of humanity. It's been a steady climb and it might be downhill from here. Enjoy it while it lasts!

[JLIAT]

I think there have always been pessimists who think things were once better, there is a hindsight that makes the past seem comfortable whereas now the future is fairly unpredictable, e.g. this pandemic, or Trump getting elected. Though there were precedents, the 1919 pandemic and Reagan? And civilizations certainly collapse, some seem currently in the west thinking that western civilization was maybe suspect.  (Both Greek and Roman civilizations at present seem to avoid this criticism.) I guess a real problem with technology is its speed / information and seemingly its uncontrollable, which might be a danger, something the Chinese seem very aware of. There is certainly no guarantee of a dark age, why do civilizations fail, lack of resources or confidence...?

[host body]

I think there have always been pessimists who think things were once better, there is a hindsight that makes the past seem comfortable whereas now the future is fairly unpredictable, e.g. this pandemic, or Trump getting elected. Though there were precedents, the 1919 pandemic and Reagan? And civilizations certainly collapse, some seem currently in the west thinking that western civilization was maybe suspect.  (Both Greek and Roman civilizations at present seem to avoid this criticism.) I guess a real problem with technology is its speed / information and seemingly its uncontrollable, which might be a danger, something the Chinese seem very aware of. There is certainly no guarantee of a dark age, why do civilizations fail, lack of resources or confidence...?

It's weird because even the dictatorships, meaning china and russia now are pretty humane. Sure dissidents and enemies of the state (or uighurs in China) get the stick rather than the carrot, but life as an average, middle class person in China or Russia isn't that different from living in a liberal democracy. North Korea seems to be the only state that actually doesn't try to make the lives of their citizens better. When has it ever been like this before? Certainly not prior to liberal democracy, say 100 years ago when the lower classes were more resources rather than individuals with human rights.

[JLIAT]

My wife recently went back to art college (in the UK) lots of Chinese students and made friends with one. Obviously they are vetted before being allowed to study in the west but she like others seemed happy with things, ambitious to make a success. Working in video, seems if you avoid politics things are OK, but then my Italian brother-in-law said the same about living in Italy. 

Could having an IKEA be a sign of a more benign state?   ;-)

[Bloated Slutbag]

Anti-intellectualism has always been an issue in the "underground"

That may or may not be true, but at least there's a level of humor there that might otherwise be thought to be lacking.

[JLIAT]

Anti-intellectualism has always been an issue in the "underground"

That may or may not be true, but at least there's a level of humor there that might otherwise be thought to be lacking.

How true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H574WR2Wmz4

[Zeno Marx]

yet even all this freedom and stability makes many people anxious.

That's a human problem.  Maybe an animal problem?  Maybe a universal problem?  Watch a child with too many options.  System overload.  Play with this for two seconds, then that for ten seconds, then...  Meltdown.  If I was an ambitious person, I'd look for some studies to cite.  In individual-based and freedom-based culture, we stubbornly see options, and yet more options, as only positive.  It's profane to consider otherwise.  It's a relatively new phenomenon.  Maybe in the last 100+ years?  Possibly significant to the overall existential crisis?

I will say that I try not to judge anything I've said too harshly.  I don't think it is reasonable to expect people who have not experienced survival-like hardship to be able to deal with survival-like hardship well.  I think of the common unjust comparison of calling contemporary people "weak" because they're in a new set of hardships and said to not have the character to deal with the daily hardships of old.  Learned toughness with different skill sets as much as anything.  As convenience advances, the capacity to deal with hardship changes.  I think of old codgers bitching about how weak and fragile new generations are.  They're right by their metrics, but their also wrong by new metrics.  I don't know how to farm or live the difficult life of a farmer.  I never experienced that life.  Why would anyone expect me to have that exact type of ruggedness or know-how?  That's where nationalism, or whatever shallow gesture prides, come into play.  As if being an American, or German, or whoever, automatically makes you physically tough or resilient, though that isn't developed, or necessary, in 2020 Western culture.  You just have it.  Wrong.  Sorry for the unsolicited diatribe.  I don't tend to care for them, but here I am committing the act.

[AnonMessAgeSage]

People who complain about the 21st century are delusional. Things have never been better for more people than now. If you'd have lived 100 years ago, chances are you would have been dirt poor, forced to do menial labour until you died an early death due to disease. People who moan about how modern life is hell like to imagine themselves as being somehow above the rest of us, and keep that status in their daydreams of past life. Delusional.

If you feel modern life serves no purpose, shut off your smartphone and computer and all home appliances and dig ditches for a month. I doubt you'll like it, hah.

You are, in actual fact, just a weak fucking pussy, sir.
Right  out of Nietzsche's, how  fitting  of a thread  title.

I cannot  wait to see your  KIND perish,  LAST MAN.
Haha! You justify  your  weakness with arguments  everybody's  already  heard a million  times  over, about  the  luxuries of the 21st-century.

Woooooowwww, how  profound  and  original I never thought of  that  before!
Posting on a forum is a waste of time.
I  no longer  care  at all, to even  plant  seeds.
What is done is done.

All will be judged  by FATE.
So go fuck yourself,  mortal.
You are your OWN self-destruction.
And  you  know  it.

Some of  us were born  to be slaves.  Others  were destined  for  greatness. What is greatness, you  ask? How  could  you  ever  know  that,  even  if I told  you?

You  will see me when  the time  is  right.  But I won't  see you, because  you,  are nothing.
I won't  see  you in person, but you  and other LAST men  of our  times, will indeed  recognize  my greatness and  see that I do what I say.

You  will  worship  me as your  fucking  GOD,  mortal.
And FATE will sort you  the fuck out.

Enjoy your  'luxury.'
You don't  know what  true luxury is.  You  can only  believe  what  you've  been  told.
Unless  you  personally  experienced  life  100 years ago, just  shut  the fuck.

[host body]

Never has the title "moderate user" been more misleading.

[JLIAT]

"No shepherd, and one herd! Every one wanteth the same; every one is equal: he who hath other sentiments goeth voluntarily into the madhouse."