The Ethics Of Trading

[Andrew McIntosh]

I trade for a few reasons. One of them is habit, really; an old idea of staying with the DIY "ideals" I had when an unemployed punk. It feels comfortable to me to simply trade one of my releases for someone else's, rather than deal with money transactions. It seems to me to be an honourable way of dispersing the sound I make to others.

But lately, I've been re-thinking those ideals. With my last release I traded as always and got material that, quite frankly, went straight to the reject pile. What I was thinking was I want people to hear what I do so I'll hear what they do and if I don't like it that's okay. But lately, it's not been okay. I'm starting to get a lot pickier than I was even a few years ago. So I'm thinking that putting up a small charge, despite the hassles with getting an account and all the rest of it, will have to be the way to simply avoid getting the bad and in some cases outright shit I've been getting.

It's a pity, though, as I still like trading. Getting worthwhile trades is one of the best things in the world. I'm wondering how other people see it. If you trade, as many of you do, how do you go about it? Do you reject things that you don't want? Do you simply let the good outweigh the bad? What do people think is the best way to go about trading?

[RG]

I can't speak for your situation, but for me it would depend on where in the timeframe of my "obsession" does the trading fall. For example, about ten years ago when I began listening to a lot of black metal I was like a sponge and traded constantly, always looking for new stuff. Now, I pretty much know what I like and I have no desire to seek out new bands. Of course there's occasionally something new that comes along and catches my attention, but that rarely happens it seems. I have my personal "classics" and styles and I stick to those.

For noise/p.e., I'm still in my "sponge" state, just soaking up the vast ocean of what's out there and sifting through it to see what appeals to me. I know eventually I'll probably hit that plateau where I just no longer have a need to find new stuff, which is where I'm guessing you're at with your noise listening.

I know also you're specifically talking about trading your OWN releases for other's, but I think what I'm talking about still applies. The novelty has worn off somewhat and your standards are more strict.
I guess i'm not talking about trading specifically either, more so just listening in general, but again it applies to what you're speaking of.

[ARKHE]

The little I have traded has mostly come from me contacting those I want to trade with, not approaching someone for a release that I know I wouldn't enjoy or at least want to own. Better to not trade at all than for someone to waste a copy of something that will never be appreciated (though that of course has happened). But I can say that so far, as I have been exploring the contemporary scene to find out what exactly is going on, it has been through trading mostly, which has been invaluable for "getting into" the genre as a whole. Even if that means obtaining samples of the vast noise/industrial array that I'll never listen to again. In five or ten years time, I will probably reason differently.

[A.R.GH]

For me, trading it's something so vital for the spread of my work, being from a country where the noise scene is SO small, 99% of my stuff is outside my country, that used to pissed me off a little, but now I just accept it.
Anyway, I always want to listen at least some samples of what I'm getting, ussually it's me contacting people after i heard part of the stuff, or I contact people with i'm already familiar with the stuff. I don't like making "surprise" trades... sure, sometimes I get some good material as bonus, but I rather know something about what I'm getting.
I love to trade, I wish i could spent more on it, unfortunately international shipping end up absorbing my extra cash

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I think situation is slightly different depending on the case, on what level you're operating...  but basically I still trade on almost every level.
-I trade 2nd hand items, just scored from fellow board member copy of Isten#2, old Seed Mouth tape, old MDM tape (self abuse) which I didn't have. Or I think I don't. If I actually did, eventually back on trades or 2nd hand sales..
-I trade as the label/artist. Single copies for other peoples single copies or bulk copies for other people bulk. This includes my own works and stuff I put out.

Does one get some uninspiring crap once in a while? I guess so, but it also gives you perspective for the whole field. I know people, who focus on guaranteed big names they can trust, but what happens when they don't live up to it? Still keep eye on the same names out of old habits, while one cheap cdr or tape would suddenly reveal that there might be inspiring new stuff all around. If not new, at least unheard to you.

If material appears to be half assed, not "seriously" done, just something thrown together quick to have something to send around, I have no time for it. I think often you can somehow already have certain gut feeling what is the good choice. I do trade from the smallest self released tapes to biggest players of the genre, if they just can convince it is something I need to get.

[Violent Noise Atrocities]

I do quite a bit of trading...and in all honesty i have turned down some just because i was not familiar with the project or the person who was emailing me. I almost feel guilty for saying no to them, but maybe its like Mikko said...a "gut" feeling sometimes.

[martialgodmask]

I've traded quite a few of my first tape through both contacting and being contacted. 50/50 split I think. Good for getting "new name" around, good for hearing new stuff with little disposable income. I think everything I have received has been good in one way or another. I guess only disappointment is when you feel like overall effort of your release is possibly not equaled by that of what you receive.

Anybody who does want to trade, please get in touch.

[JoeTheStache]

I think trading is a great thing and do it quite often.  However, when it comes to getting shit for your trade, well, that's usually your own fault.  When setting up a trade, if i have not heard a band that someone wants to trade me a release for, I check out that band online (the vast majority of bands/projects will have some sound samples somewhere.)  It really only takes a few seconds or minutes to find that kind of shit.   

[THE RITA HN]

old MDM tape (self abuse) which I didn't have.

good score mikko.
underrated masterpiece!

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I had the promo tape these guys sent to me (members of Building of Gel) and at that time it was unreleased. I would guess it's same material that ended up to SA release.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

I used to get trade requests offering home made CD-r's for my 7"s and CD's. When declining such "offers" the reaction could sometimes be quite pissy. "Whoa dude, don't you know it's all about the music dude?". Sure, why don't you first spend a few hundred pounds on a CD or a 7" and then take my latest dried and flattened turd in return and then let's see how keen you are on trading.

It's not a problem anymore. I chased most of them away with a blunt statement regarding that particular format on my website and it's been blissfully quiet since. I think most of that generation fucked off to poison other genres a while ago but it's also the fact that CD-r's have gone out of fashion over the last couple of years. Unless you're Mark Solotroff of course but not even he wants to admit he peddles CD-r's.

[ARKHE]

Agree on that, on principle - there has to be a balance in the trade, economically. Perhaps not to the level of "did you duplicate the tapes yourself, or had it professionally done?", but basically what TGE wrote. The artistic quality on the other hand, that's a different issue...

So label owners, how many homemade HNW c20's with xeroxed covers and spraypainted tapes is an LP worth? The standard is 2 tapes/7" - 1 LP?

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

There should always be room for a bit of give and take. No need to be anal but with people who so blatantly take the piss I clam right up and become very hard to get.

[A.R.GH]

that's one important point, even trading cd-r for cd-r, I've sent printed cd-r, glossy paper cover and received non printed cd-r, regular paper cover, ink jet print, in a plastic envelope.That's not acceptable.

[JoeTheStache]

I loathe scrawled on CDrs and bootlegged tapes.  Stay away from Jerkoff Records is you hate them as well. 

I also fully agree on even price in trading.  If i'm selling what you're sending me, i want to sell it for the same price, not 3 buck cheaper cuz it looks like shit. 

One time some guy tried to tell me his 7"s were worth 2 tapes each.  I told him to fuck off.