EU / rest of world noise trade

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, May 24, 2021, 03:52:32 PM

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vomitgore

Quote from: Urban Noise on May 27, 2021, 06:25:19 PM
I've been filling up everything "outside-Europe" online since January, but until now it was basically the same old thing. I was already expecting more trouble clearing packages that come from non-European countries. It was just a matter of time. Here in Portugal it has been a fucking nightmare dealing with customs for a few years already, but with these new rules... I guess the very little trading I do once in a while will stop completely. And this will affect sales too I'm sure.
I think this will have an impact in the scene in a couple of years.


Seems like the only was would be more distros within the EU which buy larger parcels from non-EU labels and would become something like the go-to point for Europeans. Of course, prices would be higher due to the fees they would be paying and from what I have heard, the whole "buying items for distro" concept is far from booming...

Zeno Marx

As I was reading this thread, I was wondering how business is going to have to change in the underground.  Some thought digital was going to kill it, but I feel it is going to be shipping and the red tape.  I don't suspect editions are going to be larger in number, giving labels and traders more time to wait and make larger trades to make it all more worthwhile, so maybe hold boxes are going to come back into play?  I watch a punk label that updates its website nearly every day.  Very small quantities of everything.  Most of the stock sells out within minutes.  From what I can tell, each day is considered new.  No hold piles.  The likeliness of the same small group of customers making orders several days a week, thus paying shipping several days a week.  I can't imagine that model is sustainable for buyers, so the sellers are going to have to accommodate in some fashion.  Hold boxes that get cleaned out weekly or monthly?  Of course, this doesn't address the red tape and taxes, but what are labels willing to do to better their situation with buyers and traders?  Or is this all better allowed to become more and more isolationist and unfriendly at the whim of postal services?  I don't have any answers, just questions.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

absurdexposition

I certainly endorse hold boxes and do offer the option at checkout via my web shop. US distros/labels should especially consider this, given how impossible their international rates are.

If shipping via private companies can help avoid the impending hassle and fees mentioned throughout this thread then I would suggest those who use PayPal to look into netParcel shipping. It can be accessed via paypal.com/shiplabel/create, or from the "ship" portion of a transaction. This allows shipments to be sent via UPS or DHL at corporate discount rates. Just be mindful that UPS seems to charge customs fees within certain European countries (Germany, for example), even if the order value is marked low (our UPS rep at work even advised us not to use them for European orders...) and there always seems to be a hidden fee for the receiver with DHL regardless of order value or originating/destination country. But maybe those fees will still be less than what's about to start happening with national postal services.
Primitive Isolation Tactics
Scream & Writhe distro and Absurd Exposition label
Montreal, QC
https://www.screamandwrithe.com

Bleak Existence

when shipping is higher than what ordered there a fucking problem that should not be that way against the modern world ?

host body

Quote from: Bleak Existence on May 28, 2021, 03:18:35 PM
when shipping is higher than what ordered there a fucking problem that should not be that way against the modern world ?

Its almost like people are so used to everything being easy they forget what it used to be like before international law and free trade. Also that its very easy to undo what took decades to achieve (looking at you, brexit)

impulse manslaughter

Quote from: absurdexposition on May 28, 2021, 03:02:14 AM
If shipping via private companies can help avoid the impending hassle and fees mentioned throughout this thread then I would suggest those who use PayPal to look into netParcel shipping. It can be accessed via paypal.com/shiplabel/create, or from the "ship" portion of a transaction. This allows shipments to be sent via UPS or DHL at corporate discount rates. Just be mindful that UPS seems to charge customs fees within certain European countries (Germany, for example), even if the order value is marked low (our UPS rep at work even advised us not to use them for European orders...) and there always seems to be a hidden fee for the receiver with DHL regardless of order value or originating/destination country. But maybe those fees will still be less than what's about to start happening with national postal services.

Never looked into this but sounds useful. When I click this link I get redirected to 'packlink'. Can I use this if I do not have a company?

absurdexposition

Quote from: impulse manslaughter on May 28, 2021, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: absurdexposition on May 28, 2021, 03:02:14 AM
If shipping via private companies can help avoid the impending hassle and fees mentioned throughout this thread then I would suggest those who use PayPal to look into netParcel shipping. It can be accessed via paypal.com/shiplabel/create, or from the "ship" portion of a transaction. This allows shipments to be sent via UPS or DHL at corporate discount rates. Just be mindful that UPS seems to charge customs fees within certain European countries (Germany, for example), even if the order value is marked low (our UPS rep at work even advised us not to use them for European orders...) and there always seems to be a hidden fee for the receiver with DHL regardless of order value or originating/destination country. But maybe those fees will still be less than what's about to start happening with national postal services.

Never looked into this but sounds useful. When I click this link I get redirected to 'packlink'. Can I use this if I do not have a company?

Ah, it could be region specific. Perhaps netParcel is only for for Canada. Packlink seems to be UK-based, hopefully the services are equivalent.
Primitive Isolation Tactics
Scream & Writhe distro and Absurd Exposition label
Montreal, QC
https://www.screamandwrithe.com

impulse manslaughter

I just looked into some of the prices. Seems to be a bit cheaper than the postal system. Might try this on the next shipments. Thanks!

Urban Noise

Quote from: vomitgore on May 27, 2021, 08:07:39 PM
Quote from: Urban Noise on May 27, 2021, 06:25:19 PM
I've been filling up everything "outside-Europe" online since January, but until now it was basically the same old thing. I was already expecting more trouble clearing packages that come from non-European countries. It was just a matter of time. Here in Portugal it has been a fucking nightmare dealing with customs for a few years already, but with these new rules... I guess the very little trading I do once in a while will stop completely. And this will affect sales too I'm sure.
I think this will have an impact in the scene in a couple of years.


Seems like the only was would be more distros within the EU which buy larger parcels from non-EU labels and would become something like the go-to point for Europeans. Of course, prices would be higher due to the fees they would be paying and from what I have heard, the whole "buying items for distro" concept is far from booming...

Besides the bigger distros that already do that,  I don't see that happening for smaller operations. And will bigger distros care enough for small labels releases to actually buy them and sell them in their region? All I see happening is people focusing more on their regional (Europe/US/Asia) scenes.

But yes, exclusive distro deals or even co-releases like TordonLjud said will be a cool option to look at.

Using private transport companies will not change anything, parcels will always go throught customs. Using other companies will only add "storage fees" and other fees on top of postage costs and import taxes.
New Approach Records
www.nghproductions.limitedrun.com
www.newapproachrecords.wordpress.com
www.nekrogoatheresyproductions.wordpress.com

host body

#24
Quote from: Urban Noise on May 29, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Using private transport companies will not change anything, parcels will always go throught customs. Using other companies will only add "storage fees" and other fees on top of postage costs and import taxes.

This. Ss much as people like to hate on national postal services, they are very often if not always cheaper for the consumer than private shipping companies.

Euro Trash Bazooka

Quote from: vomitgore on May 24, 2021, 04:29:18 PM
The EU is certainly making it harder and harder to deal with non-EU countries. France, for example demands online forms to be filled out, if you want to send to non-EU countries, whereas it used to be just a normal post office type deal back in the day. Funnily, all of this has been happening since the UK left...

The price and hassle of procedure will certainly be an aspect, but I guess the fact that parcels will be checked more intensely will also turn people off. After all, Post-Industrial content may certainly provoke more than just a bit of headshaking with some customs agents.

I've sent 30ish tapes and some lps to Tordon Ljud in the UK recently and a bunch of tapes to Canada as well after the Brexit, and I didn't have to fill out anything online. CN22 for Canada, other custom forms for the UK as the package was bigger, that's all.

Also, if you're in France, you can still use an LP mailer and put 6 to 7 tapes in there laying flat and send the package as a letter as long as it's not more than 3cm thick. Been doing that for years, never had an issue.

There was also this special fare for books and paper only that one could (probably still can) use to send packages abroad for a super cheap price. It took a while but I sent many packages to the other sides of the world with dozens of LPs in there without issues either.

Also, I'm curious to see whether people will start putting notes in their packages again (I'm not dreaming about getting letters through the mail anymore) if it can help for packages to be considered as gifts if they're inspected. Notes and letters in packages have disappeared as quickly as dual tape decks in the underground scenes, and that says a lot to me about what they've all become.
DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/

impulse manslaughter

Bought a €50 singel on Discogs from a Japanese seller yesterday. Was shipped through DHL today who just send me a €48 bill for import taxes. If this is the future i won't be ordering a lot of overseas records. Goddamned!

absurdexposition

DHL is the worst of them all for sending bills after the fact.
Primitive Isolation Tactics
Scream & Writhe distro and Absurd Exposition label
Montreal, QC
https://www.screamandwrithe.com

impulse manslaughter

I just checked a site that calculates import taxes and it says it's 24 euros for what I ordered. Then I saw the site mentioned; "DHL income tax rates are unknown." So yeah, it seems they have there own rates which in my case is 2 times the normal rate.

host body

Quote from: impulse manslaughter on June 01, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
I just checked a site that calculates import taxes and it says it's 24 euros for what I ordered. Then I saw the site mentioned; "DHL income tax rates are unknown." So yeah, it seems they have there own rates which in my case is 2 times the normal rate.

how can a private company have their own tax rates?