WHITE CENTIPEDE NOISE PODCAST

Started by WCN, October 18, 2021, 11:45:20 PM

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host body

#390
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.

SIEGSIEGSIEG

Quote from: host body on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.
Another point of view regarding books: I would rather have a book about noise even if it doesn't encapsulate noise as a whole rather than a podcast series (even though I agree with everything you said about their quality). Because books are physical. They are more trustworthy than bits on the internet. They will last. They will most likely be here when there isn't spotify and youtube around. If you document something purely on the internet you put your trust on so many third parties and applications which aren't "future proof". I know I know, when there's a madmax-esque situation going on you aren't probably worried about books or noise in general. But just a general principle in my opinion, you shouldn't trust the internet and the sites there to "document" something for the future generations. Just look at myspace. Servers got corrupted during a migration and everything posted before 2016 gone for good.

That being said, I think just for that fact mentioned above books have an important place documenting culture and they should be trusted more to do the job even though our current cultural and technological situation prefers podcasts and such.

Commander15

Quote from: SIEGSIEGSIEG on January 10, 2023, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: host body on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.
Another point of view regarding books: I would rather have a book about noise even if it doesn't encapsulate noise as a whole rather than a podcast series (even though I agree with everything you said about their quality). Because books are physical. They are more trustworthy than bits on the internet. They will last. They will most likely be here when there isn't spotify and youtube around. If you document something purely on the internet you put your trust on so many third parties and applications which aren't "future proof". I know I know, when there's a madmax-esque situation going on you aren't probably worried about books or noise in general. But just a general principle in my opinion, you shouldn't trust the internet and the sites there to "document" something for the future generations. Just look at myspace. Servers got corrupted during a migration and everything posted before 2016 gone for good.

That being said, I think just for that fact mentioned above books have an important place documenting culture and they should be trusted more to do the job even though our current cultural and technological situation prefers podcasts and such.

I agree with all that you wrote. As an librarian, i've been concerned in this phenomenon where all the valuable information and cultural artefacts are stored in these mediums that are dependant on constant availability of electricity or presumed goodwill of market driven corporations.

host body

#393
Quote from: SIEGSIEGSIEG on January 10, 2023, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: host body on January 10, 2023, 01:01:11 PM
Very enjoyable episode, yes. New Forces is one of my trusted labels for good stuff, nice to hear Stefans thoughts behind it & his projects in more depth.

Thinking about it makes me actually dislike the idea of some sort of "History of Noise" book. That would simply canonize some scenes or artists or labels based on personal preference, availability of information or willingness to participate in such a project. With noise, being a DIY movement where it's hard to pinpoint the exact origins or direct influences for regional scenes, such a book would only do a disservice. A podcast series or other format where you can add more content as soon as you find the right person to talk to is much better.

For example, personally I'm not really influenced by my local scene at all. I haven't heard most of the classics nor am I necessarily interested either. Much more influenced by American artists or specific gear than anything local.
Another point of view regarding books: I would rather have a book about noise even if it doesn't encapsulate noise as a whole rather than a podcast series (even though I agree with everything you said about their quality). Because books are physical. They are more trustworthy than bits on the internet. They will last. They will most likely be here when there isn't spotify and youtube around. If you document something purely on the internet you put your trust on so many third parties and applications which aren't "future proof". I know I know, when there's a madmax-esque situation going on you aren't probably worried about books or noise in general. But just a general principle in my opinion, you shouldn't trust the internet and the sites there to "document" something for the future generations. Just look at myspace. Servers got corrupted during a migration and everything posted before 2016 gone for good.

That being said, I think just for that fact mentioned above books have an important place documenting culture and they should be trusted more to do the job even though our current cultural and technological situation prefers podcasts and such.

Good point, I fully agree with books being the best and preferable medium for archiving due to the reasons stated. However I guess my point was more about the process of compiling oral history: weekly podcasts vs. a book that takes years to write and can only hold so much information. Who's to say that podcast series can't be translittered (which soon will be a trivial process when AI can do it without errors) and later printed as a book, or compiled in a PDF so you can go print it yourself? Book as a medium for preserving information is definitely preferred, but also quite expensive and time consuming to make. A podcast series, all you need is a person to interview and some audio and video editing skills.

FreakAnimalFinland

Recent incident with Infinity Land Press youtube account was good reminder... was it 14 years worth of content suddenly disappearing when account shut down. No warning. No former deleted videos. Just instanty whole thing going away and only AI bots will reply to inquiries.

For example Freak Animal channel got plenty of content removed or turned "mature audiences" only. Most of Grunt, Contortus, even stuff like mo*te box promo clip. I do hope oskar keeps backups saved that one time if he has wrong kind of guest and channel gets taken down, everything would go down the drain...

As opposed to one book, I feel only way to do it, is ongoing series with chapters. I guess something like CULT NEVER DIES book series is not exactly ideal, but example you could keep putting book after book, just like zine or podcast.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

host body

#395
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 10, 2023, 11:28:31 PM
Recent incident with Infinity Land Press youtube account was good reminder... was it 14 years worth of content suddenly disappearing when account shut down. No warning. No former deleted videos. Just instanty whole thing going away and only AI bots will reply to inquiries.

For example Freak Animal channel got plenty of content removed or turned "mature audiences" only. Most of Grunt, Contortus, even stuff like mo*te box promo clip. I do hope oskar keeps backups saved that one time if he has wrong kind of guest and channel gets taken down, everything would go down the drain...

Yeah, I wish people would get serious about backups. HDD's cost next to nothing and cloud services are quite cheap as well. Double backups on a HDD and a cloud service should be a routine for everyone. Properly encoded video doesn't take much space, either.

I read about that Infinity Land thing and it's just baffling to me they didn't have backups of the channels. Like, unbelievable almost.

theotherjohn

I hope that 2023 is the year when people seriously start considering decentralised/Fediverse services like PeerTube as a viable alternative to Google and the like. At the very least, using open-source frontends like Nitter and Invidious to view content on Twitter and YouTube respectively is a small step towards taking control of these services. This topic is probably deserving of a dedicated thread...

host body

Quote from: theotherjohn on January 11, 2023, 01:39:22 PM
I hope that 2023 is the year when people seriously start considering decentralised/Fediverse services like PeerTube as a viable alternative to Google and the like. At the very least, using open-source frontends like Nitter and Invidious to view content on Twitter and YouTube respectively is a small step towards taking control of these services. This topic is probably deserving of a dedicated thread...

LibreTube on Android.

PTM Jim

I'm probably in the minority with this one, but, fuck it. Let it all get lost. It's more interesting if everything is gone.
This is me playing devil's advocate with myself also, because I clearly DO love the history and the culture of noise and get devastated when amazing shit isn't preserved. 
Perhaps that is the fate of noise. Die and be born anew.

WCN

Harsh Noise label and EU based distro of American Imports
https://whitecentipedenoise.com/

FreakAnimalFinland

Good one.

I think the one question that gets asked now and then, is what happened in (USA) scene after the sort of 2005'ish peak has been done and by 2010 or so... way way less happening. Dilloway mentions financial crash, that caught the noise a bit later. First people could afford beer, weed and noise. Then after few years, finally realizing they can just afford weed and beer. haha.
Well, I have seen handful of times US financial crash being given as one of major reasons for downfall of some music cultures. For examples those that blossomed with CD sales.

I would strongly assume, that instead of that, what we really had was the impact of internet of the time. In 2023, it may be difficult to think how things were back in 2005, compared to just couple years later. If one didn't really experience time before. About 2005, and +- couple years, just about every company started: facebook, youtube, discogs, bandcamp, spotify and so on. Just about all things we take granted now. Guys who formerly may have had all the time in the world to get creative, go to gigs to meet someone, put out tape, put out cd and so on, and within couple of years transition time, we arrive into situation where you got marketplaces selling just about all the formerly released noise on one marketplace. You can talk to people fast online, listen to streaming audio for free of charge without knowing how to search things or communicate. You got several years of everybody putting out more stuff than they can get rid of, massive sales of thousands and thousands noise CD's thrown to people at 2 bucks each or something.

I would assume there is this combination of hot scene running out of steam + suddenly new situation where you are not just buying for the next 5 tape batch, but you got new fast rising global marketplace where you got access for all the 2nd hand stuff you missed over the years. Plus blogs, streams, etc filled with rarities you never had possibility to hear. Plus, movies, games, and countless other things. We have this joke in underground metal about one lost generation of guys. When World of warcraft came out, just about same time as social media rise, there were people who simply were immersed by gaming. So much that all former creative impulses pretty much disappeared. Still today, I talk to people and they mention they haven't got anything done, because have been so busy. And turns out, that "busy", means: games. TV-series.

In a way, entire way of how people spend their time, had such a massive impact on underground art. A lot of guys who have done it out of "having something to do", had plenty of things to do. People who were noise tourists into something new and exciting, had information overload to find plenty of other things that are new and exciting. People who formerly bought from distros and kept what they bought, had possibility to buy 2nd hand stuff and sell 2nd hand stuff easy. Back in the day, discogs wasn't the place its now (back then you could actually score lots of stuff for dirt cheap prices when tons of people listing stuff they never manage to sell locally, without knowing how valuable they could be).

And many more, but basically all reasons could be lumped in category of massive technological leap that changed so much in how things are made and experienced. It took some time until things start to stabilize.


And another thing is, that like Dilloway says, there has been lots of peaks in noise. While the USA scene may have been going downhill, you can see that for example in Finland, 2005 probably marked the moment when live noise really started to happen. That may be also thanks to technology. Finally means to quickly advertise shows to people. Noise shows in finland, from 90's to 2005 happens once in a while. Suddenly entire culture of bunker gigs, private spaces and all that arrives here. New labels start, gigs have decent audiences and so on. More bands, even more bands, and seems like from then on, things only growing to this point.
Swedish tape noise thing happened. At some point there must have been 5-10 labels besides Posh Isolation putting out gnarly DIY noisy tapes in Denmark. Russia had entire own thing going. And so on. We may talk about quiet times in USA noise, while in some other places that exact moment was the peak of activity?

Like now, there is new peak of Japanese noise happening. That's what currently active Japanese guys tell to me. Big crowds come to shows. New projects playing with interest from audience. and so on. What do we know about it here? Where would you have any information of this? Who knows..
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

host body

#401
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 17, 2023, 09:39:09 AM
Plus, movies, games, and countless other things. We have this joke in underground metal about one lost generation of guys. When World of warcraft came out, just about same time as social media rise, there were people who simply were immersed by gaming. So much that all former creative impulses pretty much disappeared. Still today, I talk to people and they mention they haven't got anything done, because have been so busy. And turns out, that "busy", means: games. TV-series.

It's funny cos now you see a lot of this "gamer culture" influence in noise and music in general. Obviously younger people write what they're influenced by, and I guess it's in a way more honest than just rehashing the same old themes noise has been exploring for 30+ years. But still. Games, especially modern games are so far developed as products, and it's weird how cynical pop culture seems to be taken sincerely by artists operating in a very uncommercial culture. Like, why does it feel cheesy and lame if someone makes a video game themed noise, industrial of heavy electronics release? I play games myself a bit and don't see them as inferior to other past times, like watching TV or w/e. Burial sampled a lot of Metal Gear Solid 2 for his first two albums, and while not noise they have a certain aesthetic and atmosphere that I think is kind of similar, for example to Cremation Lily or some more polished Posh Isolation releases. It works really well, but it's electronic music. Do the same with noise or industrial, would it work?

Krigsverk

I think Mikko┬┤s analysis is spot on and exactly what I have experienced around me as well (From a scandinavian viewpoint that is).
To each his own of course, but the millenial generation is so fucked up; social media really destroyed our minds quickly... this "creativity death" can be seen everywhere and in everything. I might just be old and grumpy, but FFS, enjoy the outernet instead and let the creativity flow!

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: host body on January 17, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
I guess it's in a way more honest than just rehashing the same old themes noise has been exploring for 30+ years. But still. Games, especially modern games are so far developed as products, and it's weird how cynical pop culture seems to be taken sincerely by artists operating in a very uncommercial culture. Like, why does it feel cheesy and lame if someone makes a video game themed noise, industrial of heavy electronics release?

I wonder what is the new themes that games offer, what is not present in noise formerly? Or are we talking noise themed on computer games?

It was several years ago, when I first meet guys who came to ask recordings that sound like game soundtracks. Same guys appear to be into dungeon synth, some dark ambient, and... vague category of "game music". That probably doesn't describe any style in particular, but still being used, almost like term "soundtrack", that barely says much what type of soundtrack movie has.

E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

host body

#404
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 18, 2023, 08:49:38 AM
Quote from: host body on January 17, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
I guess it's in a way more honest than just rehashing the same old themes noise has been exploring for 30+ years. But still. Games, especially modern games are so far developed as products, and it's weird how cynical pop culture seems to be taken sincerely by artists operating in a very uncommercial culture. Like, why does it feel cheesy and lame if someone makes a video game themed noise, industrial of heavy electronics release?

I wonder what is the new themes that games offer, what is not present in noise formerly? Or are we talking noise themed on computer games?

yes themes are universal, but video games don't touch heavier themes at all, or if they do it's in a over the top, shallow, very melodramatic way. but perhaps i used the wrong word there, general aesthetics are so different in gaming than the old analog world noise is still very much based on. and now games are the #1 past time, there's a whole generation who's only and every influence comes from gaming, and they're already making noise. bandcamp is full of that anime aesthetic stuff. it hasn't really found it's way onto the tape culture or "legitimate" labels, but it's bound to i think.