WHITE CENTIPEDE NOISE PODCAST

Started by WCN, October 18, 2021, 11:45:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Zeno Marx

I genuinely don't understand...meaning, I'm not being purposely obtuse...how, or why, grabbing something off bandcamp is any different than plopping on a record.  Of course, there's a difference if you only listen to digital on a phone or some portable device vs a stereo, but that's for another discussion and for other theories.  And I've also always been miffed by the idea that if you press something to vinyl etc it shows you care more about it or it has a greater personal investment than if it is only digitally available.  There are some mental gymnastics going on there that I cannot follow, and I don't word it that way to be insulting.  I just don't get it.  There's a different vision and different financial investment etc, but something inherently speaking to quality or spirit or dedication?  It takes a whole floor routine to dance that theory.  When we talk about classic releases, or at least when we try to talk about them, we're almost always, with rare exception, talking about the sound and/or spirit.  When we talk about something 50 years later, like Changez Les Blockeurs, we don't care that it was limited to 100 copies. When we talk about GO's Mind Control, we don't talk about the cool idea of having a negative on a printing plate glued to the cover.  Or an entire Zoviet France thread where maybe not one of us talked about packaging or format.  Cite any number of interesting or great packaging ideas.  Someone will sometimes throw in the packaging in a discussion, but really, the only thing that truly matters is the sound.  That's what we discuss.  That's what has created and held fast industrial culture, or whatever genre culture you'd like to substitute.  As much time and effort that has gone into the physicalness, it ultimately is an afterthought, and rightly so (if you ask me, and I love me some cool packaging and executed physical ideas).
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

Balor/SS1535

This leads me to something that I have been thinking a bit about lately.  While I was not around in the time when industrial came about, reading about it and listening to others talk about it makes it seem like the 1980s, even 90s, had more of an industrial culture in and of itself, as opposed to being primarily a musical subculture.  Of course music was always a part (and a central part, at that), but there was also things like RE/Search doing books on Burroughs and Ballard, Taint/Mania originating out of an underground movie zine (if I remember correctly), Sotos, even looking back to Dada/Futurism (both arts movements combining music/performance with other modes of artistic creation), and so on.  Maybe the shift to being on Bandcamp compounds this "musicalization" of industrial/noise?

Of course, this forum itself also has an entire non-musical subforum filled with various permutations of other industrial artists and cultures both old and new...

theotherjohn

#527
Re: listening experiences, I suppose it's a bit like eating fine food off a paper plate, or drinking good whiskey out of a plastic cup... you're still enjoying the same thing, but the presentation or the receptacle feels "improper" somehow to the value/standards/privilege bestowed upon the experience. Of course, part of what should make Noise unique is that it should go largely against these fetishistic constraints, but with the passing of time it maybe has just become yet another collectible and commodified genre with its valuable trinklets. Most likely, that's due to it having such a limited audience/budget/availability of resources in the first place? And yet, the ubiquitous tools of this early culture like the C90 tape and the xerox machine (or more everyday objects like tin cans, chicken wire or pigs' ears) should mean that anyone could effectively assemble their own releases, using what is available at that given time. That's not discounting the sound aspect of the Noise itself with others blatantly borrowing or stealing other people' sounds to add to their own releases, and thus disrupting the importance of the Artist as sole creator. Thus, all noise releases should unselfishly just make up a small part of the larger body of Noise, which is the great work that deserves celebration. Noise as a Cathedral?

To get back to personal preferences, I do find it disconcerting that if I do listen to Noise via digital means, there is an overwhelming sense of distance and distraction involved. There is a level of sameness to looking at artwork via a screen that has multiple other functions not related to Noise or music surrounding it, and said artwork that's included with a release fits nicely into the same uniform size of a square thumbnail in the same place on the screen (you can thank the iPod for this commodity conformity). Similarly, there is too much ease with how I can quickly skip or scrub through a track on Bandcamp for example, or see the loud or quiet parts of a track through its waveform on Soundcloud (again, the iPod resulted in single tracks taking precedence over albums). The waveform aspect surely has had an effect with how people record something these days too; no more just pressing 'record' on a tape player, hoping for the best until you press 'stop' and then listening back to the results (or like with analog photography, using up a roll of film and then processing it to see how the photos turned out). It becomes more analytical than anything, like I'm watching jagged lines of prices on the stock exchange and seeing when something sold high or low. This level of pre-selection involved with digital means results in a search for ultra perfection; an ironic counterpart to the overabundance provided by unlimited digital resources that are not constained by older limitations like recording mediums by the minute, or recording studio time by the hour, or records or tape runs by the pound/kilogram or cubic yard/metre.

Which is why, personally, I prefer to experience Noise in a live setting - either watching/listening to it being made or making it myself with hands on equipment, or via a medium where the concept of duration is removed or out of your control. You don't know where it's going to go and you have no preconceived notions of how long is left (either by a reminder of what minutes/seconds have passed or are left, or what 'track' is now playing). Your hands aren't on a computer mouse or a keyboard, or your thumb resting on a phone's screen or a remote control.  You're not watching the tape heads spin smaller or larger (with the concern of the tape snapping), or the needle move ever closer to the label (with the concern of it bouncing or skipping), or the CD/phone/computer display show the track and time passed or left (with the concern of getting an obtrusive notification). It's just the Noise and you're as present in the moment as you can possibly be.

WCN

This week on WCN TV: WINCE - live at Resistor in Leiden, NL, July 8, 2023.

In support of STAR on his EU tour, alongside AWENYDD, SCHOCO MUNE and AMOS PELED, presented by Charnel Ground. Video and lossless audio of full WINCE set out now on WCN TV, available through Patreon.

Next week on WCN Podcast: Gabriele Giuliani of DEAD BODY LOVE.

https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Harsh Noise label and EU based distro of American Imports
https://whitecentipedenoise.com/

WCN

Out now on WCN Podcast - Gabriele Giuliani of DEAD BODY LOVE!

https://youtu.be/TARhF2glORc

In this very special episode, I was joined by Gabriele Giuliani of DEAD BODY LOVE, a highly influential Italian harsh noise project from the mid 90s. He also did the projects DRIFT and DISCORDANCE, and was behind the label Less Than Zero, which was responsible for releasing many classics of the genre. In his first public appearance ever, Gabriele shares the story of his origins in a small town in Italy in 1995, to his prolific and profound run of underground activity, including details about his closest contacts and as well as revealing some of his mysterious recording techniques. Much of his essential catalog is currently being reissued on CD, giving a fresh generation the chance to discover his work in depth, so do yourself a favor and dig in.

On Patreon in in the EXT. of this episode, Gabriele tells about the time Marco Corbelli visited him at his home, his top 5 noise releases of all time, and more. For the Maniac's Circle, Gabriele shared a brand new harsh noise track, which is available for download. And for the Heavy Sponsors and Noise Fiends, I'm giving away a copy of one of the new reissue CDs free to each supporter with their next order at the WCN Mailorder. All this and much more at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
Harsh Noise label and EU based distro of American Imports
https://whitecentipedenoise.com/

FreakAnimalFinland

Another excellent episode. I suppose many of us who feel little uncomfortable to talk in English, due limited vocabulary etc, don't realize how it may be easier for a lot of listeners. Italian accent English, great extra flavor, not problem at all!

Lots of neat little details of things, plus the hands-on display to how the DBL sound was made. Showing the exact 4-tracker, efx unit, and explaining the method. Been listening couple DBL cd's yesterday and the heaviness of the sound is rather extraordinary. Even if method is pretty much just all-at-max gain, that's what can do the trick.

Curious about the Kubitsuri 7". I don't think I have it. Same with bunch of other stuff from label. He put out couple Grunt items and while tape came out fast back in 1996, the 7" that was recorded 1998, took some years to come out. I think he had some sort of illness that caused him to take a break from label for some years. He has done releases later on too, but I suppose distribution is very minimal for most of releases. I would estimate not everything is listed at discogs either.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

BlackCavendish

#531
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 19, 2023, 03:59:07 PMAnother excellent episode. I suppose many of us who feel little uncomfortable to talk in English, due limited vocabulary etc, don't realize how it may be easier for a lot of listeners. Italian accent English, great extra flavor, not problem at all!

Definitely true... Being italian understanding Gabriele was a piece of cake but in many occasions I had far less problems understanding non native english speakers than americans or britons (specially from the northern part)

Nevertheless I think Gabriele has a good english, surely better than most italians, and the podcast came out really well and interesting, especially on the technical side.

PS: the Whitehouse pictures shown during the podcast were taken by me at the IV Congresso Post Industriale (organized by Rodolfo from OEC) in 2007. Nice to see them here... hard to think 16 years have passed since then.
Line up was: DBPIT - Malato - Teatro Satanico - Bad Sector (video installation) - Black Sun Productions - Whitehouse

FreakAnimalFinland

Another curious thing is, that DBL mentions that he didn't think, or realize he was doing something special and new with his noise. When he lists the Japanese artists who all are different from DBL sound (Hijokaidan, Merzbow, Masonna, Incapacitants,..) one could say each of these artist also had unique special sound. I do not know if notion of "doing something different" was even necessary in mid 90's, when generally the situation was that not so many projects sounded THE same nor was working with similar gear?

It would be curious to know how many back then intentionally both aimed to be, plus knew they were something different and perhaps relevant in 30 years? I would guess it needs more awareness of what is happening overall, to be able to consciously stand out of "mass".
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Fistfuck Masonanie

#533
Top-tier interview. Gabriele's English is great and he has no need to be self-conscious about it. I could listen to him talk all day, the two hours plus the extended section went by so quickly. Funny he has been so private for so long while having such interesting insights and stories to share. 

Trying not to repeat the topics covered so far, I also really liked his top 5 releases of all time, especially numbers 3 and 5, completely different and great albums. Number three in particular is an incredible and early precursor to noise that hardly ever get's mentioned lately or maybe in these circles.

Funny moment, Oskar's reactions to all of the incredible letters that Gabriele pulled out. "Incapacitants... Paper..." gave me a chuckle. How many can say they've received personal communications from Mikawa?

Absolute treat, thanks Oskar.

WCN

Out now - "Responding To The Comments"

Solo episode where I addresses some of the questions and comments on the podcast from across the internet, including here on the SI board. Officially belongs to WCN TV, and may be removed from the public channel and put on Patreon in the near future.

https://youtu.be/q-w6YS8vYAE
Harsh Noise label and EU based distro of American Imports
https://whitecentipedenoise.com/

FreakAnimalFinland

Nice! Also very good news on Greh and Gaya. Mentioned few times that it would be great to hear Noisextra folks talk about their own things, more detailed of their own history.. even if documenting other peoples noise of course is important. Curious to see what comes from Greh!

Also, I would not mind more of the Q+A episodes. Even if podcast folks would not consider themselves as authorities of genre, I would consider them getting "interviewed" by the listeners once in a while, not bad idea.

The discussion of what more and what possibilities harsh noise would have brings couple easy examples in form of sound of breaking wood or sound of breaking stones. They both indeed are less popular than metal junk, which in deed is like the electric guitar or noise. I still don't see that it would drastically changes what is harsh noise as we have plenty of examples of it. I mentioned at youtube comments that its kind of shame (and mostly my own fault) that ENTITIES album never came out. Jerman + Brucato project, that had full album of breaking-wood harsh noise. I read from Jeph Jermans book that some clips of that album was recycled on his own CD on WCN. Perhaps someone should try to ask Jeph if he got the audio. I have been unable to locate master CDR after all these years. Label who can proceed with it would be encouraged to do so if you get permission from artist(s).

Stone noise, I would shamelessly name drop KSNK "Murska" CD. One can always say it is not harsh noise per se. Yep, it is not the distortion pedal harsh noise. It is noise of breaking crushed stones. The machinery that crushes stones and the actual sound of stones crackling into smaller stones. Somewhere in lines of older The Haters, Vivenza and such, but really a noise album. If it would not appear harsh, one could only conclude one listens with too low volume? hah..

Of course it is possible that what it is really meant, I don't "get it" quite right.

I would guess what I said before on topic, to me it merely seems that if we surround ourselves with specific approach of noise, it can prevent us seeing the other type of noise that is out there. If albums are not reviewed, artists not interviewed, distributors not carry, gig organizers not inviting,.. it is very likely we do not get exposed to the other approaches of noise that probably do exist?
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

vegasfountain

the Dead Body Love interview was excellent in many ways, but I must say it's really disappointing that he's using AI art for his re-issue covers. If you look closely at the recent art for "Horrors of the Human Body", it looks like total shit and the concept could have been executed far better by a real artist. I just hope this doesn't become a new trend in noise or any other music genre for that matter. It's completely lazy and soulless.

Bloated Slutbag

Quote from: vegasfountain on July 25, 2023, 03:28:35 AMIt's completely lazy and soulless.

Almost as though it were coming from a dead body.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

RURAL RESISTANCE

I'm not much of a forum writer these days, but I have to say that both the Dead Body Love and the solo episodes were really good.

Commander15

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on July 24, 2023, 08:43:24 PMStone noise, I would shamelessly name drop KSNK "Murska" CD. One can always say it is not harsh noise per se. Yep, it is not the distortion pedal harsh noise. It is noise of breaking crushed stones. The machinery that crushes stones and the actual sound of stones crackling into smaller stones. Somewhere in lines of older The Haters, Vivenza and such, but really a noise album. If it would not appear harsh, one could only conclude one listens with too low volume? hah..

Of course it is possible that what it is really meant, I don't "get it" quite right.

I would guess what I said before on topic, to me it merely seems that if we surround ourselves with specific approach of noise, it can prevent us seeing the other type of noise that is out there. If albums are not reviewed, artists not interviewed, distributors not carry, gig organizers not inviting,.. it is very likely we do not get exposed to the other approaches of noise that probably do exist?

That KSNK album is an truly outstanding  and definitely on top my "top releases of 2023"-list. It really does exhibit the sonic possibilities that are present in organic materials as either primary sound sources or in synthesis with man-made industrial tools.