Pulling this out from metallers -hypothesis topic, as it could be interesting side track to deal with, especially is people have personal stories.
Quote from: chryptusrecords on August 13, 2022, 07:01:22 PM
Quote from: A-Z on August 13, 2022, 05:41:04 PM
the problem is, none of the *genre*-defining artists did any study of the genre
because there was no *genre* to study before said artists created their *genre*-defining works
Yeah, obviously, because they were creating the genre. But we can't just re-invent the wheel every 15 years. The genres exist NOW, we're working NOW, ignore the history at your own peril.
In my opinion all of these threads about "problems with industrial" hinge around the same fact; the genre doesn't exist in stasis, it exists in time. The invention of "industrial music" occurred at a certain time, we can't simply re-do that invention over and over again, because it already happened.
I have talked about it in various times, but I really think invention and creation of new noise happens all the time. I always feel little cautious when people try to track down the logical origin, who started the noise and how it developed. Crediting their first known guy who make some sort of racket, as guy who started genre. In a way, sure. There must have been moment when someone first churned out noisy sound and thought this is music for my ears. I do no think such moment creates definite start, in a way that everything coming after this moment, would not qualify as moments of invention of noise.
At days of internet, it is so easy to assume, that before people start to make noise, they will do their research. They find out about style, history, tools and instruments, how things should be packaged, how they should be distributed, who is the audience, where this type of people gather, and so on. Still, reality appears, that most of people who join into "scene", so to say, have utterly limited perception of what has been done, when, by who and why.
If you would have to start to investigate NOISE as total newbie in 2022, I would strongly believe, that whatever has been said and done by big part of the veterans, may be obsolete. And I say obsolete not as way to dismiss their importance, but obsolete in a way, that it would be highly unlikely that newbie of 2022 would be instantly aware and inspired by all things from Robert ASHLEY "The wolfman", idea of futurists or stepping into vastly later early Whitehouse, TG, SPK, or even be able to grasp their impact or importance. It is more likely, they arrive into situation, where most of talk revolves around Merzbow, Prurient, Trepaneringsritualen, Puce Mary, Brighter Death Now, and stuff like this. Perhaps no possibility to evaluate importance of project, if it is just something locally appreciated, currently hot, is it lazy new comeback, or is this the utmost core foundations of genre as a whole?
For those who have been around for some years, or some decades, it is easy to assume people would both care of history & context more than they care of
doing it yourself and that whether they do or don't, it would matter to same extent. Many times situation is, that maker is inventing, or perhaps re-inventing noise, without knowledge of former experience. How should you evaluate this invention? Does it matter that someone invented feedback loops in 60's, or someone who just first time accidentally plugged in few things and in 90's, 00's or 22 is thrilled of new discovery how to make odd electronic noise without use of synths or "gear"? For sure, they did not invent it first, but the process of not following every detail or genre, awareness of its history, may lead (besides awkward pride about every shitty thing you thought you did first) to do something different. Something different than what is popular or currently "supposed to be done".
As example, Umpio, who was not youngster, but started harsh noise making fairly old age. How old is mr. Umpio now? Closer to 50 than 40, I would assume! Still when he was making "Muelas" album for Freak Animal, which is very decent metal junk harsh noise, but while after, he was saying "why nobody told me about MACRONYMPHA!!!?". People who have been marinated in harsh noise trivia for years, would expect that knowledge of MSNP and Macronympha could not be missed. You expect everybody to know, acknowledge its influence to contemporary harsh noise, and so on. But no. It was very much possible to re-invent metal-object junk harsh noise without having any idea of Knurl, Macronympha and such. The realization how you are doing "same" as people couple decades ago, must have had some influence why Umpio then had huge leap forward into more personal approach. However, visually and thematically it always was, and remains to be very personal. Without notion of really "belonging" into something particular, or without consider it important. Some guys will always be like, "well, I guess I'll have to google some genocide pictures..." or "ok.. I'll rip some of these b/w prints for the front cover", but other artist like Umpio as example, is doing what he does. Just whatever squiggly handwriting and insects, cat burgers and asian streetfood on cover.
Instead of holding big importance on innovation, rather focus on who you are, what you try to express.
Awareness of history and context is at the same time important and interesting
for me. But I realize also how futile it would be to push notion of this too far. Like, if there is metal dude, who is inspired by Aghast, Trepaneringsritualen, BDN and Deathkey, and starts his own project, it is very much possible it will be sucky, but also possible that exactly because NOT being fully educated of every nuance and expectation, it will offer something different. Suddenly there is crowd who might be thinking "Finally something different than these art fags with their thick glasses and indie rock clothes playing stupid tape loop! Nice logo too, man!", eh eh...
In this scenario where you are supposed to know the context or what all is out there, who made it, why they made it, it is very easy to be buried in this history. However, I think it is vastly more likely that you are kind of free of the baggage:
QuoteWe don't have the luxury of being ignorant and slamming pedals together to create harsh noise at it's beginning, because they already did that 40 years ago
I think we are. In recent times, I've show some of my gear to people I know. Just showing what kind of set-up has been recently. Some guys, who have been making good noise for fairly long time, do not really recognize or know, what
filter does. And unless you are gear nerd, or you live in place where you can get anything, it is far more likely that noise maker does not have just the specific tools they wanted and knew they will need, but just random selection of pedals or recordiers they happened to get, slamming them together and blasting some noise. What is a
filter? How could or should it be used? What moduls you should grab for your eurorack? What is difference of dynamic, condencer, piezzo, guitar mic, or blasting harsh noise using turntable needle connected to distortion pedal? It may really be the luxury of slamming your stuff together and find out.
As example, Grunt 94-95 early days, there is synth. I was thinking the feedback loops that I did was my invention. All the analogue synth sounding electronics are just cable from stereos to 4-tracker, and from there back to stereos. Adjusting EQ settings to get sounds very close to broken korg/wasp type of sounds. In 1995, abundance of delay, reverb and such was caused by borrowing multi-fx unit from Temple of Tiermes (Unholy guitarist). Sure, we live different times now, that mid 90's, but still today, most don't have luxury buying any gear or having much idea what specific gear you are supposed to use.
Stories of finding out things, that later on turned to be like genre ABC? Inventions or your favorite bands you thought were groundbreaking as you hear them first, but later on turned out to be "genre bands"?
