”Value” of different types of physical items

[FreakAnimalFinland]

It happens very rarely anymore, but used to be that when I get for example "promo copy", that might be like defect copy of a release, items that should be numbered and then its like promo/300 or hole punched, "promo not for sale" sticker on it or something, that copy of album, as close as it is for the one that is for sale, feels weird to keep in shelves. Like why I have this defect copy, and not the actual release?

If getting 2nd hand copy of something and it is missing parts of the release, inserts, booklet or something, it feels very much incomplete.

If someone makes dub/bootleg of old tape, its fine, but I know it ain't the real thing, and value of item is really just tape I can listen to.

However, if ARTIST makes a copy of their own release, sort of private copy, one of a kind, that is different from the generic edition, suddenly it feels different. Tape was sold out, but he dubbed one more copy and threw some sort of covers there, and suddenly it may be even...  more special?

It may be partly due discogs infecting our thinking about what is "edition", what is "original", what is "repress" or "reissue", that these days one may almost believe what is being said there - that would effect the idea of what the item is worth of. Not even talking about money, but for example.. what version of Grey Wolves tape is the "legit". Is Terre Blanche tape you got from Open Wound "real", etc.  Is copy someone got from artists "edition" that is kind of "out there", existing. Etc.

It is curious question to think as in some ways it is so trivial, but several times I have been thinking about it.

Even if most retarded cases like receiving tape where other side is blank. Reclamation is made for label and they just send download code and urgining to dub it myself. Well... so what is this tape then? If I just start dubbing bandcamp downloads to cassette, do I then have it? In a way, yes, but I know that it would feel very very odd to tell someone I got the tape of this and that artists, if it was just audio  dubbed from www to tape at home. At the same time fully realizing how ridiculous the whole "problem" may be.

Ideas, obsessions, and other feelings related to what consitites as item you sort of favor, or even qualify as item you have in shelves?

[Heppakirjat]

Even if most retarded cases like receiving tape where other side is blank. Reclamation is made for label and they just send download code and urgining to dub it myself. Well... so what is this tape then? If I just start dubbing bandcamp downloads to cassette, do I then have it? In a way, yes, but I know that it would feel very very odd to tell someone I got the tape of this and that artists, if it was just audio  dubbed from www to tape at home.

I have some tapes that have had problems with dubbing levels or panning on one or both sides and when reclaming got links to actual master files via cloud for dubbing myself. This feels totally different than a "bandcamp download dub" and actually makes the tapes feel more special to me. In some ways it feels a bit like artist edition since I got an email, link to proper file put online just for me etc. Even "oh, so this is how he names his files" is something special to me. Does it make any sense, propably not. Does it feel fucking awesome, heck yeah!

I really treasure releases that have some sort of personal story and history surrounding them. It might be the way I got them or really anything that makes them special. Regardless of authenticity. Then again random bootlegs or something I would dub myself from the internet does not really feel like... anything?

[theotherjohn]

Nothing wrong with upgrading copies in your collection as you go along and if the opportunity arises, but sometimes you just have to accept that there will always be a more superior copy out there that you will never have. Be it a lower number in a run, a mint/sealed first press, a signed edition, a promo/test pressing, a pre-release copy for an associate, unseen ephemera, work-in-progress recordings, draft cover layouts etc. The further along you go, the more silly it all is. Which is more valuable - a first CD pressing by PDO which now suffers disc rot, or a slightly later repress that still works today?

Just recently there was an online discussion between friends about someone selling some near-destroyed objects that once belonged to Roger Karmanik when his house flooded, and whilst the items would be considered worthless by typical grading values due to water damage, their story and heritage potentially gave them a new "value" to the beholder - "it belonged to Roger!". Reminds me of the murky marketplace for true crime/murderabilia collectors paying $$$ for torn envelopes, hair cuttings, childish scrawls, grave dirt, stuff foraged from abandoned houses and other seemingly insignificant artifacts due to the "talismanic" power they may have welded over these notorious criminals.

Discogs is a lot of ways like the art market, especially with the futile attempts to catalogue definitive examples of a body of work. Estates or museums refusing to authenticate works, monumentally planned and expensive Catalogue Raisonné sets becoming outdated/discredited within months of their publication, "genuine fakes", doodles or sketches made by artists in lieu of restaurant bills/taxi fares given an elevated status, artworks passed off as the artist's own, even if they were done by others, etc. Damien Hirst once said about his dot paintings that whilst he painted them to begin with, his "best" ones were made by an assistant...

[Into_The_Void]

I don't buy original tape / demos from the '80s for the usual fucked up prices, exactly because of doubtful originality and extreme prices asked for maybe not original copies. I know that in the industrial scene, especially from the '80s/ first '90s the amount of seminal stuff on cassette only is high, but in these cases I am very happy with the CD represses, as I am not that much obsessed with owning original copies of this kind of stuff which is indeed very interesting and obscure, but either impossible to find and/or easily not original. That was also the purpose of the cassette culture, right? To make the music circulate in the underground as much as possible.

Talking about (mainly metal) records, I am just ultra tired of people on Discogs selling whatever records in shitty conditions and often without inserts for a high price, that website helped for sure scoring stuff but also raised the price bar quite a lot. I would try to recover scans for inserts I don't have and I really would like to (I managed to find one online so far), otherwise unfortunately one has to go also for "incomplete" records, also because the absence of inlay/insert in (most of) the old metal records was quite often an issue even back when they've been released.

[Cranial Blast]

This is an interesting topic. Recently I've decided to start mailing out "promo copies" from various Cranial Blast releases old and new to those who directly order with me and because sometimes the duplication place will send extra copies and often times I find they do with most of my own releases and I'm not really sure as to why this happens, my guess is they had a batch of a certain color of tapes and that just rounded it off?? Who knows, but I'll have a certain # of copies for certain releases and any extra copies, those are the ones that now I'll sent out as "promo copies" sometimes they'll look identical to the release, but maybe altered just a bit and if it's a DIY type of release, that's when I try and get creative and sometimes this happens out of my own amusement, I'll make the promo copy, something unique or special depending if I've got the time or if I'm in the mood to doing something outrageous, simply just because.

There has also been other times where I've made my own "independent" version of something and there's been times where I've made a special one off version of something, because it was a spontaneous action at the time. I kind of like the idea of taking residual pieces of psychical media that wasn't actually ment to be and give it this greater, crazier purpose then the actual release itself as a weird one off thing.

[re:evolution]

However, if ARTIST makes a copy of their own release, sort of private copy, one of a kind, that is different from the generic edition, suddenly it feels different. Tape was sold out, but he dubbed one more copy and threw some sort of covers there, and suddenly it may be even...  more special?

I 110% agree with the above. To speak of my own collection, Frederikke of Puce Mary sent me a copy of her 'Persona' album where she had spare vinyl LP's without the cover. Given that, she made an original artwork collage of old vintage porn magazines as a replacement cover - so absolutely a unique and prized item I own.

I also agree with the 'damaged' promo editions comment, and personally I have weeded out all such items over the years from my collection and replaced with the 'real deal' when the chance has arisen. Perhaps a silly collecter mentality, but good to hear others are like this! Ha!

[Into_The_Void]

I really treasure releases that have some sort of personal story and history surrounding them.

I still wanted to comment this, because it's the same for me as well. I tend to keep stuff which is either historical and/or I evaluate as representing a piece of history, both musical or my personal, even if it's not (too much) "valuable". That happened for example with the old Burzum digipacks - I usually replace some records with vinyls, but I chose to keep them and not to switch into the new Back on Black represses because I simply find those digipacks extremely representative of that time and the Burzum's music, and I think I will keep them even if I should manage to get an original press (also because I don't think they are that valuable).

[FreakAnimalFinland]

This has been big part how I get the stuff in first place. Of course I have used Discogs in past in handful of occasions, but almost everything I have is bought from distros, artists, labels, and furthermore, very big part is via trading. Of course being long time in the scene, I have seen times that feels now odd. Like discount sales for GROSS tapes, or big distributors doing clearance sales of utmost cult items for bargain prices and so on. For me, there is a bit of "story", in sending Cold Meat Industry huge order and scoring all Bloodlust 7"s 2 euro each, compared to paying the highest possible market price at Discogs. I don't think I ever bought music from eBay or auctions in general. Lots of stuff is just personal contacts, visiting stores while on gigs abroad. There is value in tape that was received while actively trading with artist or label and sending letters back and forth about news and sometimes all sorts of communication.

[re:evolution]

I really treasure releases that have some sort of personal story and history surrounding them.

I still wanted to comment this, because it's the same for me as well. I tend to keep stuff which is either historical and/or I evaluate as representing a piece of history, both musical or my personal, even if it's not (too much) "valuable". That happened for example with the old Burzum digipacks - I usually replace some records with vinyls, but I chose to keep them and not to switch into the new Back on Black represses because I simply find those digipacks extremely representative of that time and the Burzum's music, and I think I will keep them even if I should manage to get an original press (also because I don't think they are that valuable).

Pretty much same here. While I purchased reissues of key black metal albums on vinyl while still owning first press CD's, thankfully I did not get rid of the CD's, as I have found they have significantly greater nostalgia value for me, and I have since moved on most of the reissue LPs I picked up along the way. This has taught me the value of time and place has greater importance in my collecting habits than the pressing or format itself.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Not to mention a lot of BM reissue vinyls suck ass. Some of those Burzum Back on Black vinyl editions, not all, but some of them, I am sure were made of mp3 or something. Even people who don't care much for sound, are like "can't own this piece of shit".

Also albums where covers were clearly designed for CD, and does not look good when scaled up to LP size. Album lengths, that are clearly meant for CD. Even some new things like Burzum Belus.. who would listen 2xLP, when CD flows perfectly, and vinyl you start with 6 minute track on a-side and then flip for b-side.

Current route of changing artwork for releases and "improving them"... very rare occasion that I would think it would look good. Even if one would think there would be more money involved in metal that would correlate for labels doing better quality, it is more like other way round. I am quite sure current vinyl audience is more hungry for multi-color splatter vinyl and foil printed logo, than is the LP sounding good.

[Cranial Blast]

Not to mention a lot of BM reissue vinyls suck ass. Some of those Burzum Back on Black vinyl editions, not all, but some of them, I am sure were made of mp3 or something. Even people who don't care much for sound, are like "can't own this piece of shit".

Also albums where covers were clearly designed for CD, and does not look good when scaled up to LP size. Album lengths, that are clearly meant for CD. Even some new things like Burzum Belus.. who would listen 2xLP, when CD flows perfectly, and vinyl you start with 6 minute track on a-side and then flip for b-side.

Current route of changing artwork for releases and "improving them"... very rare occasion that I would think it would look good. Even if one would think there would be more money involved in metal that would correlate for labels doing better quality, it is more like other way round. I am quite sure current vinyl audience is more hungry for multi-color splatter vinyl and foil printed logo, than is the LP sounding good.

I've heard that before too, that Back On Black is the worst of the worst for vinyl editions, especially the Burzum ones. It almost seems like some kind of novelty thing.

[Theodore]

Uniqueness hasnt only to do with special editions, circumstances, etc. but also is related with the media itself. For example: If i needed money i would prefer to sell a killer tape that it's also available on Bandcamp / CD / Vinyl than a mediocre tape that it's the only media of this release. - About reissues: A reissue of an old tape [pre-2000] doesnt decrease its value at all for me. / A reissue of a post-2010 tape, yes it does in the vast majority of the cases. / 2000-2010 is a grey zone.