Noise about the internet?

[Flames of Torture]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

[Balor/SS1535]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

Noise zines specifically?  I don't know.  But if you mean "zines" generally/broadly (and are willing to extend that to blogs----which can be sort of like zines?), then Dennis Cooper's blog is probably the best.

[Flames of Torture]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

Noise zines specifically?  I don't know.  But if you mean "zines" generally/broadly (and are willing to extend that to blogs----which can be sort of like zines?), then Dennis Cooper's blog is probably the best.

I did mean physical zines. Noise related or otherwise.

Why I asked for zines about the internet - it's because I suspect it unlikely that a physical zine would cover topics of experiencing things on the internet.

I'm looking at Dennis Cooper's blog, but the topics seem to be mostly art criticism and theory (at my first glance). His writing is strong, thank you for the recommendation.

[Theodore]

In all honesty, even after all these posts, i struggle to understand what is noise about internet. Not anyone's fault, i guess the concept is so strange to me i cant grasp it.

Internet is a tool / medium. Each one is using it in different ways according to his needs and interests. So ? What does it mean about internet ? Our 'life' in the internet ? How we use it and spend our time in it ? Hm, dont know. From a point of view it sounds so miserable that it could be fitting. But mostly is so trivial that i would prefer untitled tracks and no artwork instead.

Really, a documented prowl on the streets maybe is trivial as subject as well - i mean, who cares about your daily life ? - but looks far more interesting and exciting than ... Browsing around porn sites.

[Balor/SS1535]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

Noise zines specifically?  I don't know.  But if you mean "zines" generally/broadly (and are willing to extend that to blogs----which can be sort of like zines?), then Dennis Cooper's blog is probably the best.

I did mean physical zines. Noise related or otherwise.

Why I asked for zines about the internet - it's because I suspect it unlikely that a physical zine would cover topics of experiencing things on the internet.

I'm looking at Dennis Cooper's blog, but the topics seem to be mostly art criticism and theory (at my first glance). His writing is strong, thank you for the recommendation.

I figured it wouldn't quite be what you were looking for.

(As a side note, the thing about Cooper's blog is that he doesn't really "write" any of it---aside from maybe the "escort" advertisements.  The entire thing is closer to a sprawling collage of stuff he finds online and then juxtaposes in interesting ways.)

[DismalChant]

Maybe something like the project Griefer?

[Johann]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

Not related to noise, but specifically to the question at hand. I recently came across a book called "the Internet and everyone" by John Chris Jones that is about early Internet (Jones was born in 1927, and started writing about these ideas as early as the mid 50s) it's an extremely fun and readable book attempting to show the Internet as it was then in 2000.

This is his website if your looking to get an idea www.publicwriting.net

You could also read about Cybernetics which does have some historical cross over into the world of early electronic/experimental music

----

On topic I think the Internet as source material has existed since it became a dominant source of content in our lives and was purposely obscured because it may have been seen as taboo in earlier years due to the fetishization of analog sources and content.

It has only been in the last few years I've seen an open acknowledgement of sound sources from stuff such as YouTube etc and mentions of recording to IPhone etc...

Regarding content specifically about internet it seems like some Jilat was doing back in the time on Chondritic Sound forum, I personally was uninterested in his projects and perspectives since he was doing a lot of seemingly computer based extremely long form stuff that might be classified as "pure noise"...I can't honestly speak to if my impressions time time are right or wrong in hindsight as I don't know if he still is involved in sound or the community.

[Flames of Torture]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

Noise zines specifically?  I don't know.  But if you mean "zines" generally/broadly (and are willing to extend that to blogs----which can be sort of like zines?), then Dennis Cooper's blog is probably the best.

I did mean physical zines. Noise related or otherwise.

Why I asked for zines about the internet - it's because I suspect it unlikely that a physical zine would cover topics of experiencing things on the internet.

I'm looking at Dennis Cooper's blog, but the topics seem to be mostly art criticism and theory (at my first glance). His writing is strong, thank you for the recommendation.

I figured it wouldn't quite be what you were looking for.

(As a side note, the thing about Cooper's blog is that he doesn't really "write" any of it---aside from maybe the "escort" advertisements.  The entire thing is closer to a sprawling collage of stuff he finds online and then juxtaposes in interesting ways.)

I see, found text taken from the web.

So far he's managed to remind me to finish reading The Space of Literature by Maurice Blanchot. Maybe I can scroll through his blog every once in awhile to find books/topics that interest me. Not a bad way to use the internet at all. Thanks again!

[Flames of Torture]

My mailbox waits for Untitled 11. In the meantime, I had a thought: are there any zines about the internet? Opinions if so?

Not related to noise, but specifically to the question at hand. I recently came across a book called "the Internet and everyone" by John Chris Jones that is about early Internet (Jones was born in 1927, and started writing about these ideas as early as the mid 50s) it's an extremely fun and readable book attempting to show the Internet as it was then in 2000.

This is his website if your looking to get an idea www.publicwriting.net

You could also read about Cybernetics which does have some historical cross over into the world of early electronic/experimental music

----

On topic I think the Internet as source material has existed since it became a dominant source of content in our lives and was purposely obscured because it may have been seen as taboo in earlier years due to the fetishization of analog sources and content.

It has only been in the last few years I've seen an open acknowledgement of sound sources from stuff such as YouTube etc and mentions of recording to IPhone etc...

Regarding content specifically about internet it seems like some Jilat was doing back in the time on Chondritic Sound forum, I personally was uninterested in his projects and perspectives since he was doing a lot of seemingly computer based extremely long form stuff that might be classified as "pure noise"...I can't honestly speak to if my impressions time time are right or wrong in hindsight as I don't know if he still is involved in sound or the community.

I can't get the link to work, unfortunately... but I am curious about the book. Thanks.

As far as cybernetics go, I'm always interested to learn more about early electronic/experimental music - any suggestions?

Yes, there is something incredibly unsexy about YouTube, or at least that's my gut reaction, such that I wouldn't advertise my work as featuring "YouTube found audio" the same way I might tease "found secondhand Dictaphone recordings". This isn't to say you couldn't find great material on YouTube, but rather that you might not boast about it. There's nothing particularly seductive or exciting about YouTube - quite the opposite for me, as there's nothing I hate more than being surrounded by a milieu of bullshit.

The fetishization of analog sources doesn't mean anything on its own. It's not like paying homage to the medium of tape will immediately produce good work, nor is it the case that sampling from the internet would produce bad work. It strikes me that the internet is just a very uninspiring and unsexy topic, at least most of the time, especially nowadays. Perhaps I'll have more to say after Untitled #11 hits my mailbox.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I was recently talking with noise artist who had made recording using solely instagram as source sound. Didn't go deep enough to discuss was it like selecting what kind of stuff was used or was it like scrolling down the feed, sounds on.

I suppose that would be one of clearest example of "Noise about the internet". It wouldn't be factory sounds, not garage, not power tools, not the machines that surround us in industrial society, but the horrid noise of fragmented ads, spam, influencer chatter, copycat comedy bits, gamers, unboxing all sorts of shit... that, randomly spoon-fed in IG feed, through effects?

It is curious thing how much this irritates me, while at the same time I think it won't be worse than Dead Body Love using metal music CD's + fast forward button "cut up" as sound source for his crunchy harsh noise. And thematically, forced IG feed audio is total abuse and horror. Still, something is there what annoys me.

Perhaps it is that the old industrial decay resulted something cool. The rust, the vacant decaying places, slowly crumbling monuments and so on. But the current era doesn't age with similar grace. Therefore I am at moment of paradox when that EXACTLY should make it perfect content, but....

[BatteredStatesofEuphoria]

Maybe its just that the Internet is too "easy." The artists of the 80s and 90s had to do all kinds of painstaking thing with primitive techniques like tape and reel-to-reel manipulations, etc. Now you can just open an app on your smartphone and hit record. Of course its not quite that simple, but comparitively, it doesn't seem so impressive. Doesn't mean someone can't do something great with using something like Instagram/Youtube to construct tracks, but the ease of effort involved is going to inherently generate some suspicion with those who have been around for a while.

And that speaks to another aspect of it. The internet is just too NEW for us, too contemporary. This is the world we live in and have known for years. There's no mystery there.

It's kind of like how the early industrial/noise acts would use WW II/Nazi imagery and how it was so shocking for people and it drew them to it. That taboo. Part of that was because it had been 30-40 years prior. People were aware of it, but they hadn't LIVED it. It wasn't their daily reality. But then, I remember back in the early aughts hearing about some band called Columbine, and I just laughed at how inane that was. "That's supposed to be shocking? Why not call yourselves '9/11' so you can be REALLY edgy, instead?" I watched Columbine on TV. There was nothing taboo or mysterious about it. It had just happened barely a few years before. It was still very much the reality of what I knew. Calling a band that wasn't shocking or offensive, it was just dumb and above all, LAZY.

Same with Instagram noise or whatever. Its just too close to the current, mundane world (even if I'm not on it) for it to really have the kind of resonance that Merzbow or whoever taking 10 different sound sources and assembling it all with a tape deck and some cheap electronics back in the 80s is going to have.

So yeah, maybe all this says is that I and everyone else are just old farts. :) I fully realize someone younger might have a totally different view on this.

Perhaps in 50 years "Instagram/Youtube noise" will be the revered pieces that everyone covets while they make fun of whatever's current.

[anusenvy]

Breathing Problem and related projects have occasionally used content derived from or content that mostly thrives on the internet (all the way back to usenet and classic message boards to modern social media) such as pro-ana, gender dysphoria, maybe Mukbang content (if I don't mix this up).

Was always a big fan of this release. This track I think fits the post topic best? https://breathingproblem.bandcamp.com/track/life-update

[Ivan Rex]

I have very mixed feelings about this topic. On the one hand, for me, Noise is an area where I can still get away from the modern internet and everything that comes with it. On the other hand, the absolute freedom of the genre always gives a chance to do something worthwhile, to find an approach to a seemingly trivial topic and turn it into something interesting.

Probably, someone can be inspired by topics such as porn/gaming addiction, humiliation in front of the camera for donations, degradation due to scrolling, etc. In my opinion, all this can work better in a humorous context, but I have not yet heard anything interesting in this vein. It's like horror movies that try to build a plot on the interaction between a maniac and a victim through social media/video chat, or even worse, on internet mysticism, which causes nothing but boredom or, at best, a smile. As an example, "Megan is Missing", from which, if you remove all the moments of communication via video chat, you can make an excellent short film. Most of the scenes on the screen that take place "on the internet" are incredibly annoying.

Now that a significant percentage of internet content can be generated in a couple of clicks, I think it's pointless to use it as a source of sound or video. It's interesting when samples are unique, although some may argue that information noise is directly related to the topic. Maybe, but I'm just not interested in it.

[Balor/SS1535]

The comparison to film from Ivan Rex is an interesting point, as I think it again raises the question of what the "about" specifically entails in this context.  There are fantastic and dark films about the Internet like Red Rooms that I thought were very effective.  At the same time, however, there are also thought-provoking but not "dark" films by people like Harmony Korine, which capture other aspects of the Internet beyond just its exploitative elements.

Bringing this back to noise, I feel as though many people are restricting noise to the traditional set of themes on abuse, violence, sex, and so on---when that is not necessary.  Those can all be valid themes, but noise can also be about essentially anything!

If anything, I think the back and forth on this topic comes significantly from a conservative perspective on what we want the genre to (not) be.

(This is, of course, an entirely different question from whether there are examples to point to of actual noise projects doing all of this!)

[Kaaoskultti]

I mentioned on the Canon thread how interesting it would be for Noise artists to explore the darkest depths of the Internet as a subject matter upon which base their music. Must admit that am kinda lost amidst what's been written on this discussion; but, in relation to noise about the internet in general, it's impossible not to think about N12's split with Taint, Candyman. The whole subject is absolutely fascinating, as it seems to be based on online events which happened during the early 00's, and as I mentioned, the way things changed and expanded during the last two decades make up a more than satisfying meal for conceptual inspiration. That being said, Pubic Eminence's My Private Showgirl, Encephalophonic's Hurtcore, alongside other releases, and some Wh and CE songs lightly deal with Internet topics. Nonetheless, since pretty much all of these stumble accross classic exploitation of perverse sex-related topics, I'm afraid they're not really focused on the wwws of the world more than a plataform for larger studies, as happened with what Candyman scrutinized in its subject matter. Does anyone know of more releases like the afromentioned? 'tis sure a great topic to discuss about.

The comparison to film from Ivan Rex is an interesting point, as I think it again raises the question of what the "about" specifically entails in this context.  There are fantastic and dark films about the Internet like Red Rooms that I thought were very effective.  At the same time, however, there are also thought-provoking but not "dark" films by people like Harmony Korine, which capture other aspects of the Internet beyond just its exploitative elements.

Bringing this back to noise, I feel as though many people are restricting noise to the traditional set of themes on abuse, violence, sex, and so on---when that is not necessary.  Those can all be valid themes, but noise can also be about essentially anything!

If anything, I think the back and forth on this topic comes significantly from a conservative perspective on what we want the genre to (not) be.

Just figured out you said what I just did, in other words. As Circle of Shit (I could be mistaken here, even though I highly doubt it) pointed out on a certain SI interview, "sex belongs to Noise just like Satan belongs to rock n' roll". I'm open to various themes, but hold no grudges towards the classic approach of the genre's masters. By the way, Gummo is one of my favourite movies ever. Which other Korine films were you referring to?