Merch originality / ”authenticity”?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I was listening the latest WCN episode, where was discussion about some crazy noise merch. Vomir jacket, The Rita toy, flags, shirts etc. Sort of funny thing, but also made me think about recent discussion I had in context of metal.

Visiting metal fest not long ago, made me notice how much there is now bootleg merch plus how much of merch is printed merch. Not screen printed, not DIY, more like blurry images looking like someone took google pic search and pushed button and you got Hellhammer back patch or Burzum back patch coming out. Looking exactly how you'd imagine. Little low-res, little blurry. I know this is the technology now and that there is plenty of great quality shirts being printed with machines that look like ink-jet printers, for textiles. Still, it is so distinctively -print on demand-  factory line stuff.

It made me think, has underground culture now totally shifted into level that it doesn't matter at all. If patch or shirt was matter of being involved, being part of something. That happening in certain time and place... it is vastly different from buying chinese print-on-demand bootleg of tour shirt or old shirt design that was for sale couple decades ago? No longer any connection with artists, labels, people involved in the underground culture or any specific time and place. Just sort of virtual underground, that is bough from largest global markets, churned out by people who don't give a fuck. Not even fan bootlegs. Just, internet printed out for people to wear?!

For sure, first time you see some spandex panties of extreme underground music, you are like "haha!". Soon it changes into what the fuck is this!? Entire business gift catalogues full of product with UG art printed for sale.

Question mainly is... Do you care? If you want WHITEHOUSE shirt, and there ain't one... doing it yourself? As a private? Or to buy from business that ain't even UG related is ok?

Another question of course being, is THIS the negative aspect of metal culture influence? The abundance of a fan merch?

To elaborate, already 20 years ago, I was sort of annoyed and vocally critical how "special editions" in metal it tends to be synonymous to "merch". Ideas are pins, patches, stickers, etc. There are no ART EDITIONS like in noise. Not in same way. Not like what MSBR, TAINT, MSNP, STINKY HORSE FUCKERS etc did. Very rarely artistic visions. Most often only mainstream culture merch added with record.

Now that I wrote this, I have feeling as if I already wrote about it in SI. Maybe, but I guess no problem. Topic not to dis Winters of Osaka Adam with his printing business or toys and merch. He does it with permissions with artists, in co-operation with them etc. It just was something that reminded me of this question that has puzzled me for quite some time. Increasingly made me think the role how MERCH suddenly feels almost like related to quick consumption (virtual experiences, social media etc) than connected to artform itself. Committed involvement, experiences bound to time and place, personal creations and so on.

All this is said buy a guy who basically exclusively wears band shirts, so clearly fanatic of... "merch"!

[Nadir]

Now that I wrote this, I have feeling as if I already wrote about it in SI. Maybe, but I guess no problem.

I was browsing the forum the other day and came across this topic, which might be the one you are refering to here. :) I think the tl;dr of that topic was a distinction between merch that is 'part of the artistic vision', i.e. serves a purpose in the packaging, is unique and therefore not redundant vs. generic merch that seems to be designed solely to milk some more money out of a record. The latter usually being patches, t shirt, posters with just a generic logo or album cover slapped on top.
https://special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=4262.0

Usually I find it pretty evident which pieces of merchandise have been created with passion, with artistic intent and those that are just commercial products. Some cases can be debated about. Anyway this topic definitely steers the above discussion in a different direction with the chinsese 'print on demand' online stores (I guess you are refering to sites like redbubble?) and appropriation of UG art for commerical expliotation, disconnected from original context.

Just a recent personal example: I saw way too late that Total Black had reprinted an Incapacitants shirt "As loud as possible", kind off salty I missed the opportunity I started looking online for other Incapacitants shirts and yes sure thing it was possible to order a pink (!) Incapacitants shirt from an Etsy store. God knows who this seller is and what connection he has to the music. I just feel completely put off the idea of buying a T shirt like that. I probably would not wear it because it doesn't feel 'authentic' I guess? Because anyone can just order one to infinity whereas a label might print just a handful of t shirts, making it infinitely more appealing just by the scarcity alone.

Anyway interesting topic, curious to see what others think.

[MALVM]

Some of my first band shirts I made by dribbling / stenciling bleach onto a black tee when too poor to buy better quality. Underground bootleg shirts are nothing new for those who frequented record shops etc even decades ago. This is a good indicator for artists to have a good supply of items they might find frequent boots of elsewhere and to sell at a reasonable price at that. This is common for people wanting shirts for older era stuff when only newer promo material is available officially.

Personally I've never had a strong belief in intellectual property rights in *most* circumstances, obviously views vary on this topic regardless of the forum (those in tech security often seem to have the most contention I've noticed, heh). Of course there's a big ethical difference between someone making their own shirt for long-forgotten obscure projects, and someone bulk selling low quality bootlegs (and selling for insane prices) when the artist has their own exact item still for sale - something you see frequently in the metal scene for sure.

But- you have such ease of access to obscure music today and many people wanting to show off a shirt to signal interest, so the evolution in that regard makes total sense. As a "collector" of shirts I intend on buying directly from the artist when possible. How often you see etsy style shops making good money printing boots out of their garage can be compelling, at the same time how good of a fan are you if you're buying something that the artists currently sells only from some cheap Chinese knock-off? I do suspect seeing the frequency of reddit tier types wearing Burzum etc gear that many indeed may not be fans at all.

Funny fact, my dad had a shirt from the 70's era biker scene that read "HOMICIDE BEFORE SUICIDE" -- When it wore out he had one of those mall iron-on places make him another one, heh. The diy 70's era biker shirts were simply unparalleled.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Intellectual property rights is funny notion in a way, that I never really think about "copyrights" or legal aspects, but more like what is the underground way of doing things and what are the manners or even "ethics". Plus most of all the spirit of underground culture.

Fans making shirt for themselves, of course totally ok, even advocated! Genre store making tiny run of shirts with sort of "cultuvation of underground", ok too. Who'd buy license for 5 copies of Hellhammer shirt or 5 copies of Mayhem shirt?

But like in WCN interview they take, in noise, almost everybody is both, alive and reachable. It is still very much possible ask artists of very top level if they want to do something and if there is high res images available etc.

Chinese Temu stores selling Atrax Morgue shirts doesn't feel like "tribute" and "cultivation of power electronics heritage", but simply financial scam by company who found niche market to get money from the west.

Why I mentioned "copyright" being funny thing, is that especially in past, you could think that noise or most of underground music styles would not give flying fuck about artists copyrights. Without hesitating, most would just scan or xerox existing artworks, little if any modification and use it as cover art. It would not even cross your mind that "legally speaking" you might not be entitled to use other artists work or photo.

So question for me remains, does underground spirit exists as such, or is some etchy store items, where band logos/artwork is modified, made new collage art, kind of similar how noise bands took dada collages, surreal paintings or art book photos and whatever, put it on their work and considered it "their cover art", so current age "fashion designers" robbing UG cult graphics for their fashion show is barely different?

[Goat93]

I think its just the availability of the Merch. Most people are Lazy as fuck and Buy the Stuff they get. Without Considering what they could get or what its behind it. The Merch itself is always the same, Burzum Shirts is the same like Whitehouse Shirts. Genocide Organ Pin is next to other Pin Bunch, so no big difference anymore.
And you can easily google everything and listen to it. Its just Commercial Property in the Minds of the Customer.

[Theodore]

So question for me remains, does underground spirit exists as such, or is some etchy store items, where band logos/artwork is modified, made new collage art, kind of similar how noise bands took dada collages, surreal paintings or art book photos and whatever, put it on their work and considered it "their cover art", so current age "fashion designers" robbing UG cult graphics for their fashion show is barely different?

Good question. I don't think I have a definitive answer, cause I don't know, who sells? , only big corporates ? Or individuals too ? - But it s different, cause it s done for an "audience" that they have no relation or they are interested to know. I guess near Burzun you can buy a Taylor Swift shirt. And they do it easy, quick, but for pennies, cause how many will buy their product ? 10 ? If we talk about a pink Incap shirt, 10 max.

If it is a person that likes images / graphics , and does this without knowing the artists regarding their sound output, he has only see images, that's his interest, but the shirt result is fine, I say it's OK if the price it's OK and can save me the time to do it myself. I wouldn't do it myself, I wouldn't bother.

[k.p.g]

It's been about 6 years since I started playing in a metal band, and it's kind of skewed my entire perception of the current culture, especially when I factor in the parallel participation with noise.  The Burzum patch being described just sounds like it came from Redbubble or something where, yeah, you are going to get some pretty shit quality.  But the people buying that are probably just stoked to have heard this stuff for the first time and immediately hop on the internet to google "Burzum merch."  Over stateside, I can't think of bootleggers I have bought from whose quality is that egregious.
I have tried multiple drafts for the last 20 minutes to articulate this point, but they all just end in pointless rants.  I think I got it this time though:

Bands are trying so badly to play catch up with bootleggers nowadays that they end up placing so much more emphasis on merch over music.  I understand seeing some bootlegger make bank over your old design can be a cause for alarm.  So you wanna give the fans the chance to grab that and maybe some stupid meme shirt too (looking at you, Crowbar, you awful fucking band).  But what ends up happening is that you have merch tables with 20 shirt choices and maybe 3 records to pick from.  So as a fan, I think to myself, "selling the record really isn't the point here, huh?"  And I have felt validated in that thought at the local level before.
I remember with French Market Press, I did a limited-run tour tape back in 2023 for my band's Midwest run.  Tape was packaged in a manilla envelope, with each copy having a unique collage and liner note to it.  Reception from metal fans was generally "what's in the envelope?  I think I'll just grab the shirt then."  Sounds so simple to those reading on this forum, but most people coming to see us play couldn't really wrap their head around a tape even coming in anything else that won't fit in their shoebox where they keep cassettes they don't listen to.  So now as a musician, I have to think "is it even worth putting that much effort into the release if the average metal fan is just going to be turned off by it?"  Hah, nope.  Just print more fucking shirts I guess. 

To get away from my frustration towards the idiotic though, I do think that this issue isn't too bad with noise.  Attempts to make shitty bootlegs or gimmicky shirts ala metalhead style are quickly ousted as lame.  Even tapes that are just in a standard norelco; they better show some sort of quality or effort in the j-card, or I'm not buying.  Printer paper j-card with some Times New Roman liner notes over it just won't cut it (in most cases, that is -- shitty quality like this can help if it is say, some gorenoise tape, where you know it's all awful already).  And if people who can only muster that up see how it's received, I think they ultimately stick to just making internet content before being forgotten as quickly as they came.