IDEA FOR A NEW THREAD: Conceptual/lyrical analysis of albums

[Kaaoskultti]

I have been, for the past few months, intensely making really top-notch analysis of the lyrical content of diverse albums with ChatGPT. Before anyone kills me, let me warn yourselves that this is not, as it might appear, a sleazy and shallow endeavour. That AI really does a great job if one uses it correctly, such as adding the actual lyrics to the prompt and programming it to create a serious effort on doing such. I feel like it would be interesting to post here some of the (translated to english) analyses that have been made; some which are truly outstanding and offered me information which I never would have thought (for example, on Deterge's "Borax Five Families" being about how " (...) an object's value depends almost entirely on its circulation, the distinction between commodity, money, and symbol becomes increasingly difficult to sustain. It is this gray area that the album transforms into sonic art" ("his" words).

Nevertheless, "actual intelligence" analyses of albums and such - that's where I am aiming at aswell. We already have a thread for musical reviews of albums, why not create one focused on the concepts and ideas therein? And again, please correct if I'm mistaken on such one already existing here. As for me, I'm making in-depth reviews of Brethren's "Savage Inequalities" and The Boyd Rice Experience's "Hatesville!", the latter being quite hillarious.

[host body]

I'm sorry, but I can't be the only one to think such things are better left between you and AI. AI can do anything you throw at it it seems, but am I interested in an AI analysis of anything? Not really.

[Skin Flick]

Better idea, just analyze it yourself and write it down. Sounds much more interesting than having a computer do it for you.

[Balor/SS1535]

I guess the retardation finally reached this place too...

[Balor/SS1535]

As a more substantive reply, however, I will say that the perception of AI creating anything "new" or "innovative" in terms of analysis is entirely false, as it is trained on pre-existing materials and chains of association.  If the output seems "new" or "innovative," that is simply because you yourself are not aware enough of pre-existing materials and chains of association.  At bottom, that means using AI to do what is proposed here is just deciding that you would rather not take the effort to learn about such things for yourself.

Seriously, what's the point of this?  AI is constantly being pushed as a tool for efficiency.  I would assume efficiency is a goal because it would allow us to dedicate more time to the things we enjoy.  So why are we handing the things we enjoy over to AI?  So that we can engage less personally with them?

This forum has been on a slow decline since the Finnish language thread diverted most of the discussion activity anyway, so maybe this is a logical evolution.

[Nadir]

This normalisation of AI is very concerning. I have also been seeing more and more noise/industrial UG related posters on social media with the tag "AI content". And also from respected names. Wtf?

I mentioned in my review that Anenzephalia's message was more urgent than ever. I cry for most of you, who surrender for comfort. I don't need AI to analyse that!

[Flames of Torture]

As a more substantive reply, however, I will say that the perception of AI creating anything "new" or "innovative" in terms of analysis is entirely false, as it is trained on pre-existing materials and chains of association.  If the output seems "new" or "innovative," that is simply because you yourself are not aware enough of pre-existing materials and chains of association.  At bottom, that means using AI to do what is proposed here is just deciding that you would rather not take the effort to learn about such things for yourself.

Seriously, what's the point of this?  AI is constantly being pushed as a tool for efficiency.  I would assume efficiency is a goal because it would allow us to dedicate more time to the things we enjoy.  So why are we handing the things we enjoy over to AI?  So that we can engage less personally with them?

This forum has been on a slow decline since the Finnish language thread diverted most of the discussion activity anyway, so maybe this is a logical evolution.

To your first two paragraphs, yes, well said. AI is not appropriate for analysis. AI cannot "think". If the use of AI replaces the urge to directly engage with art or have conversations with real people... then I think anyone who falls for that is in the process of giving up.

To your last comment. As far as English speaking users go, new threads seem to generate the most talk. I've a few new thread ideas that are half-drafted, perhaps I should finish them soon. I am always pleased to see sincere posts by regulars or newcomers. Surely there are ways to encourage more quality discussion, so let's explore strategies for humans to talk to humans more often. After all, isn't the role of the forum more valuable than ever if "AI content" is spreading like the plague?

[Flames of Torture]

This normalisation of AI is very concerning. I have also been seeing more and more noise/industrial UG related posters on social media with the tag "AI content". And also from respected names. Wtf?

I mentioned in my review that Anenzephalia's message was more urgent than ever. I cry for most of you, who surrender for comfort. I don't need AI to analyse that!

You cannot be silenced, if you don't try to speak...

[Kaaoskultti]

Once again, I don't want this argument to go any further and even I agree that IAs can't think, but can't you also read what I've said in the beginning? Maybe I've not expressed myself quite well, but the crux of this thread was to ignite the idea of bringing lyrical and conceptual analyses of albums as opposed to mere musical ones. You are all acting as if I am some sort of philistine just because I suggested it is a fun hobby to make such analyses and that they end being interesting to read, even more so than a lot of poorly written reviews out there (like the one I once read, written by an "intelligent" human, on SJ's "With Extreme Prejudice", in which he states something along the lines of them ripping 90's Whitehouse after having done the same thing to their 80's material). Once again, I am not defending IA on all fours nor suggesting it can ever replace true, genuine human intelligence. I myself was a huge critic of such tools before and I stand by the statement made above that it is concerning how far they can potentially (try to) substitute humans. But goddamn, can't you people just read that I wrote "(..) "actual intelligence" analyses of albums and such - that's where I am aiming at." Indeed the level of the conversation downgraded but that's because you used my suggestion to make only (fair enough, I admit) critiques towards the use of IA. I remember reading somewhere around here that, although people always view IA as a HAL-like, devilish figure, doesn't necessarily mean it will apocalyptically work this way everywhere someone uses it to make something as banal as seeking help to adjust its Bluetooth connection or something like that. Sure, nothing it creates is essentially innovative, but what actually is of unadulterated originality if ever? Once again, you're missing the point to the extent of blaming myself for the decline of a forum I only use ocassionaly and with which, I've never been thoroughly criticised for, say, stirring political controversy or gossip. Sorry if I didn't know what Deterge's album is about, but I still fear this reply will cause more shit to hit the fan, and thus I sincerely hope I won't have to reply anymore on here. But if it does come to a shitstorm about IA, I do hope it'd better be closed.

[Flames of Torture]

the crux of this thread was to ignite the idea of bringing lyrical and conceptual analyses of albums as opposed to mere musical ones.

And this is right. We should do this! I would like to hear your thoughts, and everyone's. Lyrical and conceptual analyses are a pleasure to read. The title of this thread is fitting, and I am glad you created it.

I feel like it would be interesting to post here some of the (translated to english) analyses that have been made; some which are truly outstanding and offered me information which I never would have thought (for example, on Deterge's "Borax Five Families" being about how " (...) an object's value depends almost entirely on its circulation, the distinction between commodity, money, and symbol becomes increasingly difficult to sustain. It is this gray area that the album transforms into sonic art" ("his" words).

I think it's fair to say it sounds like you're suggesting AI analysis should play a role in such a discussion however. Where we all post what the AI spits out right here into this thread. I personally think that is much less interesting than hearing what YOU have to say. My above post likely sounds dismissing and insulting, but I'm not necessarily saying that you personally are "giving up". By your own argument, you're after "actual intelligence", AKA human thought first and foremost, right? I believe that! After all, you wouldn't start a thread if that wasn't true. I want to hear what you think, or if you don't know what the themes of a particular release are (which happens to me all the time, seeing as I don't speak Finnish) why not ask the forum?

You are all acting as if I am some sort of philistine just because I suggested it is a fun hobby to make such analyses and that they end being interesting to read, even more so than a lot of poorly written reviews out there (like the one I once read, written by an "intelligent" human, on SJ's "With Extreme Prejudice", in which he states something along the lines of them ripping 90's Whitehouse after having done the same thing to their 80's material).

Are they really interesting to read? If there were a couple reviews of Deterge here, maybe we could compare them and see how the AI is just pretending to sound interesting. Because that snippet you posted doesn't intrigue me at all. It sounds like the same copywriting AI always vomits out. Pseudo-intelligent crap. There is a tinge of possibility within it, but as Balor stated quite well, it's because there's already pre-existent material out there covering similar topics and I would imagine FAR MORE interesting to study than the generic summary AI is bound to always, always give, which has one and only one purpose: to seem valuable. This is not an attack on you. I too confronted the "illusion" of AI with an open mind to test the limits of its possibilities, but the conclusion I drew is that we must not allow AI to fulfill roles that require human thought, for there is nothing "thoughtful" about it. AI fails my personal "Turing test" when it comes to industrial noise or philosophy, et cetera. But many people are now using AI as their personal therapist for instance, and I am quite sure such behaviors will only become more common — I believe you've struck a nerve here because of this trend.

Sure, nothing it creates is essentially innovative, but what actually is of unadulterated originality if ever?

The question of AI and human originality is not comparable in my view. I do not believe that originality is a mark of greatness in human thought or art, but rather that the human, even when being unoriginal, cannot help but express themselves despite everything. What makes their expression valuable would lie elsewhere than in originality. AI on the other hand, possesses no such human qualities, and is but the product of math. Until the human can be reduced to math, there is no comparable question. Not trying to get off topic here...

Sorry if I didn't know what Deterge's album is about, but I still fear this reply will cause more shit to hit the fan, and thus I sincerely hope I won't have to reply anymore on here. But if it does come to a shitstorm about IA, I do hope it'd better be closed.

No problem if you don't know what it's about. Maybe the forum can discuss the themes of the album together. If there are plenty of us who get touchy about AI, maybe we just would rather talk to you instead. I can speak for myself and say I'd read anything you personally write any day of the week. We humans can just generate noise talk the good old analog way! I for one wouldn't trade Ken's overflowing cornucopia of reviews for an infinite stream of AI generated analyses. One Ken > an infinity of AIs.