Dealing with a deadbeat label

[tiny_tove]

has anybody here evere been rippied off by dan ghetu, the Romanian guy behind the codreanu compilation some years ago?
I think he's the guy who ripped off most people and made more money out of it.

[catharticprocess]

I just received a package from Kristian / Styggelse with the comp and many trade items.  My particular issue is resolved. 

But the purpose of the initial thread wasn't so much to resolve a particular issue as it was to see how people recommend responding in such situations.  The consensus seems to be simply "expose the person publicly," and Mikko suggested (more or less) "everyone should know in advance what they're getting into and shouldn't be surprised." 

I think both these responses leave something to be desired, but I don't have anything else to suggest, either.  I think, ideally, it would be more akin to the "DIY ethics" thread on the CS/Troniks board, but it's rather obvious that this scene isn't about ethics, and is more about nihilism.  So that ideal is just that - idealistic - and completely impractical.  I think Mikko's response should be expanded:  we shouldn't only expect labels with a reputation to be deadbeats, but we should expect that everyone in this scene to be selfish rip-off artists, because the ethos of this scene is to despise ethics.  Self-destruction by design.  Fuck the world.

-Ben

[FreakAnimalFinland]

What we should do, is to realise underground is not THAT different real life. You got the people you get along, you got those who you don't. You got people you can associate yourself with, and those you don't. You got people who want to work together for common gain. You got those who will seek only to abuse for personal gain. You got the hardworking people with strong ethic how to do things. You got the lazy or people with too many problemas they can't function even if they theoretically wanted. This is the real world just like anything. And like in real world you struggle, involvement in ug, no matter how nice you would want it to be, shit happens.
I think yelling about all delays or all obstacles one experiences during his "career" is like old hags whining. If we see that there is person or label who's clearly calculated and intentionally repeatedly engaging into bullshit behavior, and they seek to profit or somehow gain by abusing the rest, I think that is worthwile to air public without any regrets. But something like couple lost cd's somewhere in the world, for who knows what reason.

It is of course nothing but repeating what I said and what was referred on previous message, but I'm sure Cathartic Process knew all the stories of Styggelse, but wanted to do it anyways. He also was constantly in touch with label knowing how things are. But still chose to go on multiple boards to complain about it. Something just doesn't sound quite right?
To me it sounds like placing now order to Chondritic, and in few months start spamming complaints about label being slow. Yeah, they might be accurate complaints, but I think bottom line is that most people in scene know how it goes. And due lure of "a must have object" in their mind, they will go for it. There are good releases and fast labels MORE than anyone can afford to "support". Of course one could praise ideal that scene must not have deadbeats and they must be exposed/smoked out. But how it corresponds with fact that same people who advocate this as ideal, are the ones who intentionally want to be associated & hang around with them? It's matter of choise. Can't get it all.

I think this topic could be closed down and future rip-off warnings to be done in topic with such name. With responsibility, so it doesn't just become shit throwing on people one personally doesn't like. And is done over clear cases of cheating and not by lost parcels of 3rd party etc.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Interesting "ethics" discussion. What one calls nihilism another calls life. I tend to fall into the latter camp, but only because I feel obliged to stand up for the more nihilistic/pessimistic/negative outlook.

If I've resigned myself that I've been brought into the world to be punished for the sin of existing with the torture of existing... am I, by voicing these sentiments, celebrating?

[tiny_tove]

I think this topic could be closed down and future rip-off warnings to be done in topic with such name. With responsibility, so it doesn't just become shit throwing on people one personally doesn't like. And is done over clear cases of cheating and not by lost parcels of 3rd party etc.

This is a terrible standard of Italian mail. In the late 90's the situation with Italian mail was SO bad that I have decided to quit releasing tapes since I have lost over 500 eu worth stuff between limited tapes and distros (back then it was quite a big sum considering my budgets).
Now things improved a bit, yet we still have one of the slowest services in the world.

[P-K]

how come postal services suck in the South? i hear similar horror-stories about Spain....

[catharticprocess]

but I'm sure Cathartic Process knew all the stories of Styggelse, but wanted to do it anyways.

Actually, I never heard about it until several months after the comp came out. When I mentioned to people that I hadn't gotten my artist's copies yet, they asked me if I expected otherwise.  I had no prior experience except many email and chat conversations with Kristian, and he was always a very cool guy with me.  I knew of no one who had trades prior or other experiences other than mailorder, which wasn't bad.  But after I was already in the situation, suddenly everyone was telling me this was routine business. I think it's ridiculous to expect everyone in the scene to be part of every message board gossip circle to know who is and who isn't trustworthy.  The fact that they've been in the scene for long, running a label, a mailorder and doing gigs should be enough to trust them - if they're ripoffs and backstabbers, they should be blackballed out of existence.  That is, if the scene is worth a piss.

-Ben

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Well, I think many labels are known for things also outside the forum gossip. Since many of labels don't belong to any forums but know about it. I think Olsson had already "reputation" before styggelse, and even before survival unit, heh... Talking about "ancient history". But let the past be past when he clearly has shown attempts to make best of situation, corrected mistakes and made descions how spreading releases goes in future. Which all seem like good moves.

Some of my mistakes that are in metal scene, includes losing 50 cd's to label with bad repution. I knew it, but due couple successful deals decided to send my share in advance, and then, suddenly I do get replies, but only excuses. I get promises but nothing happens. Year and half later, I think I can blame only myself of not acting as it would have been necessary when knowing the reputation of the potential trade partner. Scenes are so small, and couple e-mails take so little time, in some cases I have simply asked people about their comments of certain place or person. Within noise, the lost stuff and money involves basically just people who left the scene and no longer to be reached and therefore no reason to even mention anymore.

[Andrew McIntosh]

The consensus seems to be simply "expose the person publicly," and Mikko suggested (more or less) "everyone should know in advance what they're getting into and shouldn't be surprised."  I think both these responses leave something to be desired, but I don't have anything else to suggest, either.  I think, ideally, it would be more akin to the "DIY ethics" thread on the CS/Troniks board, but it's rather obvious that this scene isn't about ethics, and is more about nihilism.  So that ideal is just that - idealistic - and completely impractical.  I think Mikko's response should be expanded:  we shouldn't only expect labels with a reputation to be deadbeats, but we should expect that everyone in this scene to be selfish rip-off artists, because the ethos of this scene is to despise ethics.  Self-destruction by design.  Fuck the world.

So it's not just about one delayed package, it's about the whole "scene", whatever that is. Personally I've never related to any scene, I've tried looking at the individuals within, regardless of what scene they identify with or not, and tried to relate to them as individuals. Ethics rest with individuals; we can propose scene ethics as a decent guide, but it is idealistic to expect everyone to adhere to them, just as it's idealistic to expect everyone to adhere to one's own personal code of honour. For myself, I'd expect a simple, prompt reply to one's trades as a matter of course; but I've been caught out on that before and realise now that nothing is certain. I don't call that "nihilism", I call it a pity, but reality. The thing is, it goes to far when you tar everyone else with the same brush. That's nihilistic.

[murderous_vision]

I think that these folks who blatantly do not honor deals are far from the norm. I have been trading within this scene for close to 15 years and can count on one hand the times i have been blatantly fucked over. After trading quite literally several thousand items. Many times a slow trade partner, but hey, i have sometimes been slow when something came up. It happens. For the most part i don't think there should be any kind of discouragement. I think the instances are very few where someone intentionally screws another. Those odds lessened one-hundred fold with the departure of John Dixon/BaaL from the scene!

[JHC]

Who is the Italian video guy? What has he done, and is this supposed to be common knowledge?

I also had the check the name, it was so long ago that ive forgot the rectums name. IMdP

I dont know if its common knowledge or what kind of a guy he is. but im out 30 euros or whatever it was.
http://chondriticsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24138&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I still think of this guy all along.

Was Marco Farina of Videomalattie V>L>F and IMdP

> all the dvds was sent 2 week ago.
> i travel a lot, i do a lot of things beside
> living on internet waiting to reply to email 2 seconds after received.

...at the time he was constantly on Myspace collecting "friends" and posting pictures of his newly acquired vintage cameras.

Classy guy.

[tiny_tove]

how come postal services suck in the South? i hear similar horror-stories about Spain....

sorry for OT, but this is something people keeps asking and not an excuse for being slow.

OT
In Italy disorganisation, privatisation that led external agencies to deliver packages (in my area drivers are 90% immigrants who can't speak Italian, and I am nott exagerating. My father got insulted several times because these morons were throwing packages on the ground as if there was nothing inside, ecc) and in certain periods of the year regular postmen go on holiday and they are replaced for one/three months by "seasonal" officers, usually young kids who get access to such responsibilit job throught temp. job agencies.
Two years ago Bloodlust sent me some stuff and package arrived two weeks later, completely open. Mark mentioned sending some pins. Package arrived open with pins and other stuff missing. Other packages were arriving 3/4 days later than what I have been expecting (and what the stamp said).
The day after receiving the package I decide to wait for the postman and ask for explanations.
The guy -a "indie-punk" looking fellow first says he wasn't the one delivering the mail, then I ask him who should I complain to and the creep immediately says "to not put him into trouble".

A few days later I go to the local club for a punk gig and he is there, drunk with his mates and sporting a bloodyminded pin alongside sex pistols and clash ones.
A few weeks later the guy got busted after somebody found some kilos of mail thrown in a field not too far from my place.

A few years ago the person in charge of a local post office was collecting stolen mail, he wasn't even opening it, just collecting. When the cops returned this 10 year work I got letters of people who were insulting me for never receiving stuff and previous letters with money in it.

I could go on for hours telling you how bad things were. As said, the main reason for me stopping soffitta macabra releasing tapes was because I had enough of loosing money thanks to goddamn post offices.
Now things are slightly improved (if you send), but as just said, there are times of the year where it is better to not send anything.

end of OT.

[Tommy Carlsson]

Most people tend to be vary on Breathing Problem [...]

Some of you may have missed this. Mr. Breathing Problem is "about to be homeless in Berlin" ~

http://board.vivalavinyl.org/thread/view/112346/&p=165

[P-K]

NOT WASHING A DISH?!?!

[linxtyx]

Laughing out loud :)))) that's freakin funny shit.