Reissues

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I personally don't prefer "nostalgia box sets". I like when release is a valid release of this time, not just document of something. This is problem with a lot of music re-issues. It's not just repressing on suitable format, but re-make.  You will not get the album, but you get document of the album. Liner notes, changed art, possibly changed sound, and so on. It gives impression as if the album isn't really worth it, other than as documenting it's historical value. I rather would just see albums released as-it-is, same as it always was. Not document of someone's sentimental memories.

I would guess this is one reason why some people do hunt for originals. Simply because they were the real deal. Even if lacking (=read: because) the modern 0dB flat mastering and liner notes.

I guess it is little extra work, to changes ones originals to new editions if one wants to. I would assume in most of cases, the original does not lose the value. Often just the opposite. When more people hear material, collector value may even rise.

For example the Slogun re-issue 2xCD is probably way cheaper than the money you can get from selling away originals. I see discogs prices of some of those businesscard cdr's starts from 18 euros. With selling the 4 CDR's, you not only get funds for this new Slogun 2xCD, but probably 2-5 other new releases? Same applies for all the tape re-issues. To sell original tape, not only you get funds to buy CD re-issue, but probably couple other discs! Of course it demands the mentality of trading/selling... And thinking what is the value of each release. Some would most likely prefer the hand made/hand assembled packaging, directly bought from artists, than any "improved" re-issue.

For example Vinyl On Demand issued statement about stopping distribution of other labels, and his dislike about re-issues, since those re-issues and re-pressings of sold out titles disappoints fans and collectors. It is strange statement from label committed exclusively to re-issues of rarities and obscurities.
If someone really gets his motivation from collecting "rarities" and doesn't want other people to have them, I'm 100% ready to disappoint them any day any moment. It should not be about collectors worrying about decreasing value or disappearing "obscurity", but getting good and inspiring stuff heard by people. I think in past not so many people were so concerned about the potential re-sale value, but simply getting records to listen to. Now it seems to me, for a lot of people, it's most of all the "collectors value" and "re-sale potential" which determines what they buy. Partly as reaction to that, I stopped announcing size of editions of releases. While it would probably add "collectors value" to number many CD's/LP's to mere 100-200 copies, it seems unnecessary. I rather have people buy stuff just for the music, not because of collector potential.

[Goat93]

Now it seems to me, for a lot of people, it's most of all the "collectors value" and "re-sale potential" which determines what they buy

That is the Main Problem of all Scenes who are Considering "Underground" Mentality. I don't think for Myself, that an "Original" Tape is "the real deal", cause i don't care about an 100% Original Collector Proof. The Tape is no Old Collector Coin with certificate for me. But for many People it seems more Important to have an "Original" for good Money instead of the Music itself. As Example it were no Problem to get Con Dom or Grey Wolves Tapes. They were released and dubbed in several Ways. Now all People hold their Tapes and want Insane Money Prices for the Tapes, cause is CVLT. Where is the Point to spend 30€ for a Grey Wolves Tape, which were dubbed Hundred Times 15 Years ago? I see not the Point in it. Same will all kind of Metal Demos. Old Death Metal Demos were Music to spread around. Not selling it on Ebay as "Real Deal" for Hundred Euros.
For this the Re-Issues make absolute Sense, cause it will Lower the Prices at all. Ironically (again more the Bigger Scenes like Metal) react of this and sell now several Collector Presses of the same. 4-6 different Colour Versions of one LP is Common now and they sell over the Time. Of course all are limited to absolute nothing. 6 Different Colours and each Lim. 100 Ulver, Samael, Tiamat LPs are really funny.

In the End, its mostly for $$ and not for the Value of the Money. Glady, in Noise/P:e is not so much and the Mentality is also not for too much Collecting, or i'm wrong with this?

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Let's be honest. The limited to super limited editions are a tactic for labels to get their money back quickly as well as being a fucking curse for the whole genre. A label or artist could release the hottest shit of the year and if it's not limited enough (or a big enough name) it won't move for anything. Not because people don't like it or lack interest but because they are busy buying up every limited to zilch release that could possibly be of interest to them and ran of of money for this month. "We'll get it next month. Guess what, the new limited to zilch from label/artist such and such just arrived and oh fuck me didn't that bunch just stick a new lathe out as well. Shit, seems money is scarce this month too. And the next and so forth. What release was that I wanted again? Oh yeah, plenty of copies of that I see, phew. Oh shit, here come the limited batches my way again, better hold on to my fillings...". And there's the label who wanted to make a good release available to as many as possible with huge stock and no money to release anything else for at least another year.

Where did it start, where does it end? Who's to blame? Labels? Artists? Buyers? All of us?

I understand labels for doing it and I understand buyers for not wanting to miss out on something they will potentially like but I don't think it's doing anyone much good in the long run. I have no solution to offer and I'm pointing my finger at nothing and no one.

[Goat93]

Don't forget to mention, that the Music is avaible anytime for free now. So the lim. Editions are only for Collection Stuff. I know several People who tried to bring this "Underground Mentality" with the Limitation, since not so much People could buy it. But in the End it maked no Sense, since its Music and the Musical Taste can/will change. So People sell/trade/gifted the Stuff and the Price Idioty begins again.

You can Blame all together. The Labels want Money for next Releases or even to exist. The Customer want something "Special" cause its "Underground" and the Artist can say he have lots of Sold Out Releases=Big Band. In the worst Case it is so.

The Price Politics are also a Matter how all works wrong. Some Labels have every Year (or the Whole Year) Sale Outs. Its very Good for the Customers, since they spare lots of Money. But from the Mentality, why spend 12€-14€ for a New Unlimited Release when i can be sure, that i get it after some Time for 4,99€ in a Blow Out Sale? But all Unlimited Releases will surely Suffer under that, cause which Mailorder want this Stuff again in the Mailorder or how could the Label sell the Stuff for Normal Price, when others have All Year Special Prices?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

I personally don't prefer "nostalgia box sets". I like when release is a valid release of this time, not just document of something. This is problem with a lot of music re-issues. It's not just repressing on suitable format, but re-make.  You will not get the album, but you get document of the album. Liner notes, changed art, possibly changed sound, and so on. It gives impression as if the album isn't really worth it, other than as documenting it's historical value. I rather would just see albums released as-it-is, same as it always was. Not document of someone's sentimental memories.

This isn't clear situation and we can doubt it. If you decide to reissue old cassette on CD format as-it-is, same it always was, this is only fiction, because THIS was a cassette, not CD. Different shape of booklet,different quality of sound, different circumstences/conditions of listening. Of course, somebody may say that these are only details, but other can say that REISSUE item after many years can be considered as a new look for old release. OLD RELEASE which was recorded by not satisfied equipment (against will of author), without other technical/printing limitations which were 20 or 30 years ago, now author of this music can do it much more perfect, according with his original vision. Why not?

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Don't forget to mention, that the Music is avaible anytime for free now. So the lim. Editions are only for Collection Stuff. I know several People who tried to bring this "Underground Mentality" with the Limitation, since not so much People could buy it. But in the End it maked no Sense, since its Music and the Musical Taste can/will change. So People sell/trade/gifted the Stuff and the Price Idioty begins again.

You can Blame all together. The Labels want Money for next Releases or even to exist. The Customer want something "Special" cause its "Underground" and the Artist can say he have lots of Sold Out Releases=Big Band. In the worst Case it is so.

The Price Politics are also a Matter how all works wrong. Some Labels have every Year (or the Whole Year) Sale Outs. Its very Good for the Customers, since they spare lots of Money. But from the Mentality, why spend 12€-14€ for a New Unlimited Release when i can be sure, that i get it after some Time for 4,99€ in a Blow Out Sale? But all Unlimited Releases will surely Suffer under that, cause which Mailorder want this Stuff again in the Mailorder or how could the Label sell the Stuff for Normal Price, when others have All Year Special Prices?

All true and valid additional points to what I said. I agree all the way but I'd rather bow out here and not get sucked in any further. I'll just get wound up otherwise.

[Zeno Marx]

an era when reissues became pure folly and revisionist dysfunction.  Hollow collector gesture.  "curator" label carpetbagging.  Buy the boxes and go back to the MP3s.  Complete lack of discerning, critical thinking for it is nothing more than something to consume.

Going by his words, but not having seen an Industrial Recollections in person, I appreciate FreakAnimalFinland's approach.  Pretty fucking simple stuff...if you do it right.

[Ernpe]

You will not get the album, but you get document of the album. Liner notes, changed art, possibly changed sound, and so on. It gives impression as if the album isn't really worth it, other than as documenting it's historical value. I rather would just see albums released as-it-is, same as it always was. Not document of someone's sentimental memories.

I have to disagree about the liner notes. As I am interested about the artists vision, read the interviews etc., it is nice to read some recollections about the work being reissued. Or what someone else thought of it when it first came out. Well done such liner notes are truly extra, without ruining the record as bonus tracks, remastering or new cover art does. Any reissue, however, cannot be 1:1 with the original done 10+ years ago, and more certainly not if the format is changed from tape to vinyl or from vinyl to cd.

Of course one could say that 'zines or blogs are for the liner notes, but it is still quite unlikely to see an interview / memoirs / essay to appear hand-in-hand with the reissue. At least not in the underground, where the labels don't force their catalog on the pages of the music media.

I actually do have some records both original and reissue due the liner notes. If the difference is just bonus track or two, I've tend to sell the reissues as soon I've got the original.

[trashritual]

Reissues are always a touchy subject it seems. Either artist/label offers reissue as a bare bones no frill version or give the release the red carpet treatment and someone will ultimately always complain. I can personally understand both sides to the coin but in most cases I find myself prefering a straight forward reissue with little to no remastering, artwork similar to original, etc. I guess this is more of the clear difference between audio restoration vs. remastering itself? Ultimately as long as the label and artist involved are happy with end result that is all that matters. For those who wish to complain they can always seek out the "prefered" version of release.

For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).

[Zeno Marx]

For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).

GZ pressing?  The result of DMM?  Or are you guessing there was an actual remastering?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

VOD is laquer cut I believe, pressed in Germany. He doesn't use GZ.

[Goat93]

For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).

This is also a good Example for this Collecting Stuff. Since the CD's were out (and i'm very Happy about it), the VoD Box have the same 2 New Re Issues (mit neuen Waffen & Sound Atlas) in it. I don't see the Point, why these are in the Box instead of other Material?

[P-K]

For example, the somewhat recent Club Moral material on the VoD box set was remastered pretty piss poor. Compare DDV's "Sound Atlas Of Venereology" excerpts on VoD against the reissue I handled on Trash Ritual (CD format) for best example. VoD's remastering included altering the sound itself to remove high pitch frequencies that were present on the original recordings. I honestly can't speak on why such drastic remastering was done as I am sure the master material presented to both VoD as well as Trash Ritual was the same (yet end results are quite drastic).

Belgium is small, why not just ask DDV ?
-same masters were used, VOD remastered them in Sweden (?), TR left the master untouched. The remastering seemed necessary for a vinyl release (the two 10"s were also remastered).

he recommends a 1:1 comparison lol

[trashritual]

TR left the master untouched? I would recheck the CD as this is not true at all. This is a clear case of audio restoration vs. obtrusive remastering.

As mentioned previously i have no problem with remastering when it is done right. The Club Moral set on VoD unfortunately doesn't fall under this with removal of punchy frequencies for example. Check the track Atmungen for the damage down during VoD's remastering.

[Zeno Marx]

obtusive remastering