Punk/Hardcore

[tiny_tove]

I think the energy of those years didn't need such big production... they were inventing something, I don't know if they felt it, but it just works...
I remember when I got The Business Suburban rebel LP, the LINK reissue and despite being recorded by a monkey probably, it had that sound that seemed loud even at low volume... something that I have been able to witness at their mid- 90's Reunion show in the mid in  Belgium (notwithstanding the antifa/cops). When listening the more recent remastered cd rerelease it does not sound anything like that.

[Andrew McIntosh]

That's an example of a better recorded Oi! album. Interestingly, The Buisiness had a very smooth, almost poppy sound when they started as a band (try "Falling In Love With Strangers") and they actually made their sound more aggressive as they went on. The problem I think is a lot of band's live energy would have been well diluted in the studio. It was an issue with a lot of Aust. Metal groups in the Eighties - their long awaited album would come out and it would often just sound like crap. At the time you took it for granted.

And I would go back that's far because that's how far back I go. Others may even go further, others not. It all illustrates the same point.

EDIT - wait a minute, antifa against a Business gig?! Or were there other bands playing they didn't like?

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

Thing is, people actually have a choice now. And faux "authenticity" is a choice. To be honest I don't mind.

Fair enough, man. But I choose good hardcore bands over boring, uninspired ones. I spun the Collapse Society 7" again this morning and was wondering whether most of the "rawdistortcrasheryaddayadda" bands from the last 5 years have listened to it. On the side A's label, they wrote "500000 rpm." I want to see a US band that plays like that. I'm going to see Impalers tonight, hopefully they deliver (I don't like the sound on their records.)

[tiny_tove]

EDIT - wait a minute, antifa against a Business gig?! Or were there other bands playing they didn't like?

yes.
Mid 90's first reunion in Belgium was stopped by antifa pressures on police although the gig was  apparently organized by sharp oriented skin (not redskins, there was no rash back then, at least not as big as it became a few years later).
A few months later we get a second chance, so here we go and we book a van with a bunch of people from different Italian bands (Klasse Kriminale, Asociale, Alchoolnauti, etc.). We arrive on site and we find a group of German skin with very sad faces that the gig was stopped by the police for risk of "public disorder" but that were rumours of an alternative venue and there was a meeting point somewhere else in town. We reach the place and there are hundreds of skinheads and punks. At a certain point we move at little groups in a secluded venue I think belonging to a priest (!!!) and the gig was just fantastic with constant invasions on stage no fights despite the presence of different tendencies of skins (trads, ns, sharps).
Organizers told that antifa have been banging their bong drums since they didn't want skinheads in town.
Back then, for the media, being a skinhead was still automatically equal to be a nazi and things like this happened all the time despite  Micky Fitz and friends never been political (and they had their share of problems with C18 if I am not mistaken) so most of the bands that were reforming in those days.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I don't know what kind of politics the Business lads would have had personally but at no stage do I recall them ever expressing any party line. They were always in the best British Oi! tradition of being for the working class before everything, for good or ill. As well has having some great songs. "The Real Enemy" is a classic.

In Melbourne skins wouldn't show up to punk gigs during the time I was a punk (Nineties) unless it was to cause trouble. Most of them didn't care much for the music and certainly not the message of most local bands, they just wanted to fight. I recall one night when Bastard Squad played and the vocalist, Jason, fed up with the agro, strode in and stopped it himself (he used to be a boxer), while guitarist Matt berated the crowd (from the safety of the stage it must be said) for letting dickheads start trouble in the first place. For the most part, though, I have to say that the great majority of gigs I went to were largely peaceful as long as the skins didn't show.

Fair enough, man. But I choose good hardcore bands over boring, uninspired ones.

Certainly. I don't listen to a lot of punk bands these days so it's hard for me to discriminate, but I'm not too worried about it. I had a listen to that Impalers album this morning and have to admit I liked it, more like primate Metal to my ears. But I've got to admit, lately my tastes in distorted guitar music have been getting outright immature. So I'm probably not the best person to pick and choose.

How were they live, by the way?

[tiny_tove]

I don't know what kind of politics the Business lads would have had personally but at no stage do I recall them ever expressing any party line. They were always in the best British Oi! tradition of being for the working class before everything, for good or ill. As well has having some great songs. "The Real Enemy" is a classic.

totally agree on that... with cock sparrer, 4 skins and combat 84 my fave "classic" OI! band ever.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Combat 84's "Rapist" is great. When I first heard the lines "We need a stronger government/Bring back capital punishment!" I knew it was a hit. And it's a pretty damn catchy song.

Cock Sparrer has some rippers, too, especially "Watch Your Back" which is an anthem for me now. And this is just brilliant! -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkEEaoawRdc
"Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee looooove you/And we hope you're groovy too".

4 Skins also had some good ones. "I, I, I don't wanna/I don't wanna die/You can ask the reason why/And I will not tell a lie/I don't wanna die". And who could go past "I'm evil evil evil evil/Evil evil evil evil/EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL!"? Fucking poetry right there.

[tiny_tove]

agree on everything

combat 84 set the landmarks for more "square" less rock and roll oriented oi! putting the base for French OI, a lo to rac, etch.
Cock sparrer were very influenced by the best glam around, although softer in the lot due to the melodic voice they were very powerful... just listen tom live and loud and yet, probably best singalong ever...
4 skins were probably the best of the lot (at least for me), any line up created masterpieces... from per-hardcore tracks like "one law for them", to the (too-much) covered Chaos, to semi ska tunes like Plastic Gangsters... and lyrics were really better than anything around those days...
The were a big influence on Italian Oi, although the sounds of Nabat, Rip Off, etc was much rougher (also due to the absence of proper studios) and we return to your first post on the subject.

the great thing about them and the few other great bands of those days is that despire playing a genre, they all were very different from each other... cockney rejects (who apart from a few masterpieces never were my favourite) were very different from cock sparrer, so business were from last resort. and all of them were able to write eternal songs...

[Andrew McIntosh]

Yea, they were pretty much setting the scene rather than copying it so they did have more of a distinct sound between bands. Cockney Rejects never appealed to me much either but I did like "I Am Not A Fool", pretty catchy song. I used to have the "Live And Loud" of them, they sounded like they had a pretty good time; "We are the fucking top johns and you all better like this one or you can fuck off", if I remember right.

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

Impalers were really rad. Loud and brutal as hell.

Same with Ajax. 

[Mikerdeath]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDERX0yf3AU

Glue Demo Tape

I wonder what Autsin people think of them, they may be a little conservative at heart and young, but they belt out the tunes on the next level

[a_2_g_2]

Full of Hell is my go to Hardcore/powerviolence band. I'd love it if more punk bands incorporated actual noise/PE into their music
These first two songs are such a great transition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6B7j4pdQok

[dubduboverlord]

Lots of excellent punk, postpunk, and hardcore in my town at the moment. Lots of crossover, shared gig lineups, and general shared interests in noise / industrial / experimental in the current manifestation of the punk scene. I've been participating in this stuff at varying levels for a while now (started going to shows in the early 80s, owned a record shop and helped organize / host shows through most of the 90s) and find it gratifying the current scene dovetails with my tastes for noise and industrial, old-school goth and deathrock, wild Japanese, South American, and Italian HC acts such as GISM, Wretched, Confuse, etc. A few selections:

Rubbish - classically orthodox and well-performed American hardcore:
https://rubbishboys.bandcamp.com/releases

Allergy - noisy, anarchic punk (new guitarist, who has a noise side project named Besito Negro, has upped the noise ante since this recording):
https://allergygainesville.bandcamp.com/releases

Vermin - stomping, Discharge-y stuff, currently touring:
https://youtu.be/b91VTJK7uCE

Exit Dust - sporting that great, watery guitar sound favord by old deathrock and peace punk acts such as Part 1:
https://exit-dust.bandcamp.com/releases

Cold Waste - drum machine driven, reminds me of Pornography-era Cure, maybe a little Lungs-era Big Black:
https://coldwaste.bandcamp.com/

Soda - dissonant, dark, and loopy postpunk:
https://youtu.be/xydrEBV28Bg

Suckle - chaotic synthpunk girl gang:
https://youtu.be/bWAr0IUDj6k

Widow & Children - punk stoner doom with early 90s style Ebullition proto-screamo vocals:
https://youtu.be/wk-LVU9q1fg

Waylon Thornton & Heavy Hands - prolific husband / wife duo into the Cramps, Beefheart, AC/DC, Half Japanese:
https://theheavyhands.bandcamp.com/

(Waylon and I have a project titled Camo, kind of a early industrial take on vintage slasher movie soundtracks: https://camo352.bandcamp.com/releases)

Post Teens - raging melodic hardcore a la classic Zero Boys, early Husker Du, Wipers, pre-Rollins Flag, etc:
https://youtu.be/ziwsa4NFBOY

Witch Titz - a more primitive / theatrical take on synthpunk girl gang by members of Suckle:
https://youtu.be/tBBD98H60GE

UVTV - garagey, noisey, reminds me a bit of 90s Too Pure band Faith Healers:
https://youtu.be/4ruSHSR7Fmw

[Andrew McIntosh]

Witch Titz - a more primitive / theatrical take on synthpunk girl gang by members of Suckle:
https://youtu.be/tBBD98H60GE

That was particularly terrible.

[dubduboverlord]

Witch Titz - a more primitive / theatrical take on synthpunk girl gang by members of Suckle:
https://youtu.be/tBBD98H60GE

That was particularly terrible.

No argument there, but I love it nonetheless. Competency, taste, and good judgment are forever my enemies.