Punk/Hardcore

Started by Reprobate, March 23, 2012, 03:29:09 AM

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Zeno Marx

Not loyal to any Suicidal besides the 1st, but I'm REAL loyal to it.  One of the best albums ever made.  Period.  Genre don't matter.  "Possessed to Skate" was cool for a minute, but eh.  It didn't have a long shelf life in our house.  After that?  ffffft.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

tiny_tove

totally agree

still today one of the best HC records ever and part of those groups that somehow lost it as soon they pushed the pedal on metal...

they had incredible lyrics and brilliant aestetic + bad rep
CALIGULA031 - WERTHAM - FORESTA DI FERRO
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Andrew McIntosh

Cunts don't know when it's time to quit. For example, for years I've worshiped The Blood. Fantastic UK punk band that produced some of the best melodic hardcore ever recorded. "False Gestures For A Devious Public" and the split they did with The Gonads (not such a bad effort from them either) rate very highly on my list of essential fucking punk.

But tonight I listened to "Smell Yourself", years after thinking they'd turned it in.

Old farts trying to recapture the moment of their younger years is fucking embarrassing. In this case, it's only the lyrics and the solos that remind me of who this band is. Everything else is the kind of standard-issue punk that they used to be much better than.
Shikata ga nai.

tiny_tove

Blood +Gonads absolutely amazing...

CALIGULA031 - WERTHAM - FORESTA DI FERRO
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Zeno Marx

I don't know why SxTx changed styles so much between album 1 and 2.  So much time had passed, so they had lost their identity?  New songwriters?  New interests and influences?  Les Claypool working the studio on Join the Army?  Piecing old, thrown away ideas into new songs from such a different perspective that they didn't work well in either direction?  Feeling they could cash in on the popularity of thrashy metal and general artistic ambition (the success of Metallica had a huge, confusing impact on metal in all of California, not just the Bay area)?  None of these questions are rhetorical.  I'm genuinely curious as to why Muir and Co shifted between their albums.  I've never bothered to do due diligence.  I've rather wanted to leave the s/t as a moment of almost unparalleled glory than to fill in the cracks with too much possible reality.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

calaverasgrande

honestly I think with punk/HC bands there is a tendency to drift away from just playing punk.
It is very easy to sound good when you only know how to make power chords and play 4/4 beats. Everybody loves 18 year old anger with a simplistic musical foundation.
But if you play any instrument for a long period of time, you start to get good at it, no matter how untalented you are. Then you start playing minor chords, arpeggios, and odd time signatures. In other words, Metal.
I've seen some variations on this. A lot of older punks I know went all roots rock and play rockabilly now. Ex members of Christ on Parade and some other Bay Area punk/hc acts are in the Hellbillys for example.

But there certainly was a thing about 'going metal' in the late 80's. COC, DRI and many other bands embraced Thrash Metal and wanky guitar solos. The reasons then were more obvious than now. In the US at least it was much easier to get a paying gig at an established metal venue. The punks were putting on shows at VFW and St.Marks community center type spaces and charging very low doors. So very low headliner pay.
Metal venues were larger, more oganized and had that great profit model of grinding up local bands with pay for play, and being able to sell alcohol. So they had no problem paying a touring HC/Metal act a decent amount, plus actual backstage areas!
I distinctly remember the metal venue bouncers as the absolute worst though. One memory sticks out of arguing with friends about going to see COC at a lame metal venue with violent bouncers or going to see local hardcore bands at a punk venue with skinheads. We took our chances with the skinheads. At least we had a fighting chance.
I'm sure there was also some label pressure on bands that signed to majors or large indie labels. That shit can really ruin a band.
"Cherry Orchard" anyone?

tiny_tove

I like a lot of metalized HC, as I enjoy several crossover bands (SOD!!!) and many thrashcore bands as well (wermacht, cryptic slaughters, etc), but really what gutted me was having bands delivering meh records after masterpieces... sounding like completely different bands

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F_c_O

I've been looking for a seven inch or such that I heard on youtube wayback and have lost since. The only thing I know is that the band copied the look of riistetyt skitsofrenia lp for the cover. Of course the band name and such are changed but otherwise theyre identical. If anyone here has any idea what that release might be, please tell me.

Andrew McIntosh

Yes, it's almost de rigueur for punk bands to start changing once they learn a fourth chord. Some manage it better than others, but as a rule punk and ability usually don't go hand in hand.

There are two British bands I recall, Action Pact and Dead Man's Shadow, who both when in a similar, odd way. Both started off as fairly acceptable, bouncy sort of UK 82 type punk bands (Action Pact were quite good actually), admittedly not thrash, but I used to have albums from them that were - weird, in that they were trying to play a more musical kind of music. It wasn't pop, it was sort of rock but more melodic. As a result, hardly any memorable actual tunes.
Shikata ga nai.

Zeno Marx

I've been a little obsessed with Discrete Records for a while now...

V/A 場外乱闘 2006 - one of many Discrete comps - really into this one - getting repeated listens - anyone have a complete collection of Discrete comps?
Juntess - Under the Red Moon 1991 - some good stuff on this, but it also suffers from listless production - get the sense the songs are better than they are here - it's a long HC album, but it feels even longer.
牙 (Kiba) - 魑魅魍魎 1991 - a thin recording, but I still like it well enough.
牙 (Kiba) - Never Change 2004 - this recording jumps at you more than their 1991 album; has better energy because of it as well - 2nd tier Japanese HC, but good stuff.
牙 (Kiba) - 神風 2013 - not my favorite cover art style - has some pop punk elements you don't find on the earlier recordings - think I prefer Never Change, but this has some good songs as well; not really that memorable of an album, though.
The Wankys/Lotus Fucker - LF smokes here.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

krod

Quote from: F_c_O on October 05, 2016, 09:42:56 AM
I've been looking for a seven inch or such that I heard on youtube wayback and have lost since. The only thing I know is that the band copied the look of riistetyt skitsofrenia lp for the cover. Of course the band name and such are changed but otherwise theyre identical. If anyone here has any idea what that release might be, please tell me.
Poikkeus maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmpI9WmkMeU

calaverasgrande

Quote from: tiny_tove on October 03, 2016, 11:40:58 PM
I like a lot of metalized HC, as I enjoy several crossover bands (SOD!!!) and many thrashcore bands as well (wermacht, cryptic slaughters, etc), but really what gutted me was having bands delivering meh records after masterpieces... sounding like completely different bands


Yeah I loved COC when they first came out. It was metal, but still punk. Then Technocracy came out and it wasn't horrible, but it was not face ripping. Likewise for DRI and a lot of other bands. It wasn't the metalness itself that sucked, it was being a metal act on a major label which made their albums just bland crap.

I do remember there being a thing in the 80's punk/HC of 'not going metal'. People would be mocked if they admitted to liking Sabbath or Led Zep. Long hair was not cool.  White tennis shoes (like metalheads wear!) were uncool. Stupid juvenile shit in hindsight.  Metal and Punk were both very similar in many ways well before any crossover bands showed up.
Was recently watching an 80's vid of Graveyard Rodeo and thinking, damn, that is pretty metal isn't it? And they were like the main punk/hc band of 80's New Orleans.

Zeno Marx

I think Crossover and Animosity hold their own against each band's early work while also representing the peaks of punks getting interested in metal and crossing over.  Both would make my all-time top 100 album lists, too.  For many years, I was caught up in how jagged and out of the box Animosity was (a masterwork of imagination and creativity), and maybe in the past 5-10 years, I realized how heavy it is.  It's not unusual to find myself going from Black Sabbath to SDS to Animosity.  And with Crossover, Spike kind of represents the smoothest riffing I've maybe ever heard.  Felix and Josh are a monster rhythm section that album, too.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

calaverasgrande

If you are a DRI fan you owe it to yourself to read Kurt Brecht's books. He wrote a few of them during the time period starting when they were more of a hardcore band and through their successful metal 'Crossover'.  Most of the time he spent homeless in San Francisco when they were not touring. It re-gained my respect for him as a lost interest in the band musically.

Euro Trash Bazooka

Quote from: Zeno Marx on October 08, 2016, 07:56:39 PM

V/A 場外乱闘 2006 - one of many Discrete comps - really into this one - getting repeated listens - anyone have a complete collection of Discrete comps?

Have you tried asking Tom or Zach?
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CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/