Started by FreakAnimalFinland, March 04, 2010, 08:29:07 PM

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It's refreshing to have an addicted Sotos reader giving some criticism rather than adulation but I thought Pilleater was mostly clueless and needs more life experience and a broader frame of reference. Kid's only young I guess.

He complains about 'flowery writing' so many times, which makes me think of I don't know, AS Byatt or Margaret Drabble maybe? Not a good or clear description for that contorted and violent prose. I can see the Kerouac in Sotos though and that was a decent point no-one's made before.



Quote from: endors_toi on August 15, 2018, 03:44:32 PM

Also, has anybody that doesn't live in the US/Canada receive their copy yet?

just received my copy in Australia this week. first time user of sotos in longform like this, really excited


received my copy yesterday (I'm in the US)
"I do not get bored of nude ladies nor good Japanese noise"


I also received my copy yesterday & started on it last night.  I like what he did with the news articles & I just put in an order for one of the books from the list that I had never heard of.


About to pick mine up from the post office today, then I'll dig right in.


Quote from: theotherjohn on August 31, 2018, 01:31:29 PM

Any thoughts yet from anyone that's had a chance to read it? All these Instagram posts from people who ordered direct from 9BB are making me itchy. Can't wait to dig into it.

Right now its my favorite thing he's written, very well worth the wait. Far and away the most revealing/honest(I think?) which makes it extremely satisfying if you've spent a lot of time wading through his more difficult work, although I don't mean to make it sound like it isn't still in the classic style. Not as direct as something like the intro to Pure Filth, but some of the passages come close, and most of it is a lot more digestable than Mine, for instance. There's plenty of attention given to long running locations/incidents etc. but also some new ones, the addition of his interactions with camgirls was amusingly current but not out of place, and its all got more of an acknowledged therapeutic element than any previous Sotos I've read. I made the mistake of glancing over the clippings and jumping right into his own writing, quite a bit of it is dedicated to the collection so on rereading Im going to actually go through them now that I've given the main text an initial read.


Ingratitude has some highlights here n' there but it's not holding my attention very well. I read some sections of Selfish, Little last night & everything that I like about it so much is absent, for the most part, in the new one. The news clippings are rather fascinating. I haven't finished it so my opinion may change.

Sure hope they make the decision to reprint OOP titles. They would be stupid not to.

I've actually started over with the new book. Now that I know it's not the violent, vulgar sadism that I wanted, I can be a little more patient with the text. I've just been in the mood for something repulsive lately...


^ I unfortunately agree. The cases in the news clippings/italics are fascinating and some of them I haven't heard about, but from what I've read so far of Sotos's text, there hasn't really been anything that made feel awe-inspired or that made me lose my breath like in Comfort & Critique, for example. Still grateful to have a any kind of new text by him, though.
@RUG, on what pages are the mentions of the camgirls encounters?


I don't remember offhand, I can try to track down the reference later if you want to jump right to them but I recommend reading through it for the full effect. Also, the combination of the camgirl commentary being one of the many recurring themes along with the clipping discussion/memoirs/masturbatory sections that run together and there being no straightforward organization (at least in terms of identifiable chapters etc.) makes it harder to recall in sequence. If you're hoping for something really deviant though don't get too excited, I only mentioned because it caught me off guard.

Too bad the book isn't doing it for you guys, I liked it quite a lot. I can see how it wouldn't be as interesting if you want really cruel Sotos, for "decoding" the man its significantly more frank than his other work (though I haven't read Comfort & Critique, Show Adult, or Lordotics) and I'm less interested in the sadism than I am the rest of it anyway. If you prefer later Sotos I'd be surprised if Ingratitude wasn't satisfying.


No, no -- don't get me wrong. I am certainly not one of the people who like Pure's Sotos (oh god), nor am I looking for bits of "sadism". I must confess I've always had issues with the all-over-the-place aspect of his writing; as you said, a lot of it is about "decoding" him, which is sometimes fascinating and sometimes merely confusing and headache inducing. That said, I own and have read almost anything and everything by him and he is, in my opinion, one of the most fascinating people on this planet and someone whom I'd be thrilled to be a friend of, or at least meet once.

So, as I said, part of the reason I "put up" with (although I don't really like framing it this way) his jumbled/often very vague writing is because once there IS, in fact, a certain insight, sentence or even a mere usage of one specific word that makes me feel awestruck, I feel like it's so damn worth it. And so far it didn't "do" it for me, which I am very sad about. Yesterday night I encountered a bit about camgirls which I found interesting, but still.

I think it'd be great if we could indeed discuss specific sections of the text, which is something people almost never do online with his works. Perhaps it could help me appreciate Ingratitude more.


Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 31, 2018, 08:46:14 PM
Sure hope they make the decision to reprint OOP titles. They would be stupid not to.
I wonder how much of this is on the part of Sotos. There's that interview where he says he'd rather have not had Tool reprinted and he clearly dislikes Pure, as well as the inclusion in Lordotics of passages from past books that were "particularly irksome memories". Obviously the later writing is quite different but who knows? Typical of many artists that they're rarely satisfied with past work, but I'd love to get my hands on the Waitress stuff, Show Adult, the pieces that were exclusive to the Collected volumes, etc.

I found Ingratitude to be pretty slow going and certainly not an immediate favorite, but like most of his books, I'll be revisiting it and likely soon. Outside of the newspaper bookends, some of the most interesting parts to me were the comparison of child pornography law to the ill-fated MacKinnon/Dworkin ordinances and the way it circumvents obscenity law's prohibition on distribution but not possession, picking apart the motivation of the school shootings at Nickel Mines and Platte Canyon, and the usual autobiographical bits like the aforementioned camgirl sessions or his talking about I Spit on Your Grave. I have the same problem that crops up with all his work since Lordotics where I end up having trouble orienting myself within the text, but unlike Mine or Desistance where I enjoyed getting lost in the mire, this one felt really exhausting especially by the last half. In a way it reminds me of my reaction to Predicate and how it felt like a detour from what was being developed in the books beforehand.

As a side note, the big list of sources on the back is a plus. I picked up the William E Jones Tearoom publication which is a fascinating and somber document.


Yesterday before bed I encountered this part which struck a chord with me and I thought was beautiful.

So it was me and not an idea.


Is there anyone else who HASN'T received theirs yet?



Just picked up Total Abuse for the lowest price I have ever seen it. Read most of this shit before, but you know. It was cheap. Pure, Tool & Parasite are incredibly cringey, and at times, downright awful. Nonetheless, an important collection that does have some merit, albeit not much re-visitation value other then for general reference: years, dates, names, etc.

On the other hand, Selfish, Little is the single most important piece he has wrote that I have read. This fucking thing will most likely go down as his magnum opus after all is said and done, I hope. Signed, first edition hardcover. If you need a copy of the softcover, I have that as well, please message me as I would love to trade it for a copy of Mine or something I have not read yet.