Hip hop / rap

[Bloated Slutbag]

Lyrical genius:

As I step onto the stage
I grab the microphone
Then I hit another poem
And I go the fuck home

- Schoolly D

What more need be said?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

What more need be said?

I wanted to show good examples. We mustn't write about funny and stupid artists, because everybody knows that mainstream hip hop / rap is shit.

[Bloated Slutbag]

What more need be said?

I wanted to show good examples. We mustn't write about funny and stupid artists, because everybody knows that mainstream hip hop / rap is shit.

Not at all funny or stupid. I genuinely think Schoolly D hit a note of real genius there. Briefly, but there it was. I mean that`s about as unpretentious as you can get.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

What more need be said?

I wanted to show good examples. We mustn't write about funny and stupid artists, because everybody knows that mainstream hip hop / rap is shit.

Not at all funny or stupid. I genuinely think Schoolly D hit a note of real genius there. Briefly, but there it was. I mean that`s about as unpretentious as you can get.

auh, ok :) I didn't feel it :)

[Reprobate]

One of my most favorite groups is Death Grips. I grew up on hip-hop and still listen to all sorts of it, but I think this is tops for me (Turn up really loud and prepare for treble attack at about 2:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orlbo9WkZ2E

They're completely chaotic, nightmarish and drugged out. Nate Hill is also a part of the group- amazing drummer who's involved in many, many, many projects.

This one features Charles Manson in the beginning and be sure to check out the lyrics in the video description: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqcTVVUFnKQ&feature=relmfu

More chaos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCgxi-h1PoI

Here's some interesting interviews with members:
http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-death-grips.html
http://www.clashmusic.com/feature/death-grips-x-alec-empire
http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/8815-death-grips/

One more favorite of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAURatEXp9k

[P A N I C]

See some good names being thrown around - when I was 14 I originally got into hiphop after buying Wu-Tang Forever and while it never really blossomed into full-blown love, some records/tracks aside, I kept buying hiphop in moderation over the years and definitely discovered some fine music. Records like The Cold Vein, Mos Def & Talib Kweli are Black Star, Enter the Wu-Tang are still very special to me.

In recent years I have begun delving into what's called 'Nederhop' (essentially 'Netherhop' - i.e. Dutch hiphop), which is of course 'just' hiphop but with Dutch lyrics. I'm not particularly 'into' lyrics in music - I appreciate good writing but am not quickly turned off by something generic or even poor. I don't really focus on the words and for years I was told by genuine hiphop heads that you couldn't really appreciate hiphop without understanding the words. While I understand where they were/are coming from, my approach to listening to hiphop has long been one of listening to it as, simply, music - so, for me, a good beat can save a poor rhyme but it doesn't really work vice versa (while it does for hiphop heads, I've come to understand). Nederhop has given me a deeper understanding of the importance of lyrics in hiphop, simply by virtue of the lyrics being in my native language. I speak English reasonably well, I think (I majored in it and teach it), but English hiphop lyrics have never really been much more to me than pleasant, ok, occasionally clever. I find that I appreciate the playing with language much more in Dutch than wordplay in English-language hiphop. This appreciation of Nederhop has really stirred up my love for hiphop and now hás developed into something 'full-blown'. I understand lyrically there isn't much to gain here for most of the board members, but productionwise Holland also has some of the most wonderful works out there.

Top Nederhop record for me: Opgezwolle - Eigen Wereld. The pun in the band name is brilliant already - the group's from Zwolle (a Dutch city), while 'opgezwollen' means 'swollen'. I'm not sure how it translates - in Dutch it's quite clever. Productions here are from Delic, Holland's best producer - who has unfortunately quit hiphop altogether in 2007 after releasing Sticks & Delic - Fakkelteit. Delic's approach to his productions is one surprisingly compositional - much more than beats he produces songs, as lame as that may sound. What it means, in practice, is varied, imaginative, accomplished hiphop. I guess the sounds really should speak for themselves here, as words really don't seem to describe accurately enough what I mean...

Opgezwolle - Balans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8mwa8ENrI4
Opgezwolle - Park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUGs6VpUdP8

Cannot recommend this album enough. Please give it a shot.

And just another gnarly Delic production:

Sticks & Delic - Snelle Jongens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0Rj10jGP9g (seriously, wait till it hits 1:32 and enjoy the fucking shit out of it)

And even outside of Opgezwolle there's so much great Nederhop. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of poor hiphop too. But hey, just pick and choose - just some examples featuring some of the best producers outside of Delic (Nikes, A.R.T., Kubus):

Zo Moeilijk - De Reunie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGXwSXb-fC0 (produced by Nikes)
Fakkelbrigade - Hitte: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuV9QWIOGJo (produced by A.R.T.)
Kubus - Zwolsche Boys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1WRssaYPc8 (produced by Kubus - not too representative btw since his beats are usually very minimal and electronic; recent work (Kubus + Rico - DMT) is almost avant garde)

Some non-Dutch things I can otherwise highly recommend:

Long Arm - The Branches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHdcvkNDaWU (Russian triphop/instrumental hiphop, except for this track - great though; can be streamed in full from the label's bandcamp)
Rumi - Hell Me Tight: http://youtu.be/ImfNHtiAc_c (Japanese chick, spooky productions and all, very effective)

Other things I appreciate: old Dizzee Rascal, Flying Lotus, Madvillain, Aesop Rock, Company Flow (essentially any old Rawkus/Def Jux, of course).

Whew.

[P A N I C]

Lyrical genius:

As I step onto the stage
I grab the microphone
Then I hit another poem
And I go the fuck home

- Schoolly D

What more need be said?

This is absolutely fucking fantastic, btw.

[Andrew McIntosh]

If You Don't Like Rap, Are You A Racist?

This was too much for (Jessica) Hopper, who was in the audience and had already written on her blog that she intended to confront (Stephin) Merritt. She ... wrote, falsely, that, "I did not have to ask Stephin Merrit [sic] of Magnetic Flds whether he was racist, because his nice, long elucidating comment about his love, NAY, obsession with racist cartoon, Song of the South, served as a pre-emptive answer. It's one thing to have 'Zippitty Doo Da' be your favorite song. It is another to lay in for Uncle Remus appreciation hour amidst a panel—('I love all of it,' he says)."

Of course Merritt had said no such thing.

Why I Hate Hip-Hop

How did a racially-diverse movement of open-minded young people decay into a commercially-driven industry of self-imagined thugs who dis one another for not conforming to constricting standards of what it means to "keep it real"?

EDIT -

Have you watched the JAY Z tour film Backstage from 2000? It contains everything you just said in your rant. Rockstar hubris and vulgarity turned up to 11. It's quite fascinating to watch.

Thanks for the tip - it is interesting.

[Bleak Existence]

Big Lokote - rage

[strangerules]

grew up with hip-hop and electronic/industrial music all around me. some hip-hop i can recommend, and some of the only stuff i can stand anymore: flying lotus, first two records of jedi mind tricks, company flow, phi-life cypher.

the first jedi mind tricks record in particular is excellent. full of conspiracy theories, unconventional rapping style and structure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvDbuoQNLjs

phi-life cypher - millennium metaphors is also highly recommend. best british hip hop record that i know of.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJGmo9vydEs

[Reprobate]

At the risk of sounding totally uncultured and prejudiced, I find all hip-hop/rap, even really well-composed material, to be pretty one-dimensional and therefore just as shitty as anything else I've rejected as a whole. Not only that, I really dislike most things Negroes are responsible for. Shoot me. I'm an ignorant white male, and at that, a dying breed.

I'd say the only thing you're guilty of is unnecessarily going out of your way to state that you're "an ignorant white male, and at that, a dying breed."

[enmity]

One of my most favorite groups is Death Grips. I grew up on hip-hop and still listen to all sorts of it, but I think this is tops for me (Turn up really loud and prepare for treble attack at about 2:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orlbo9WkZ2E

They're completely chaotic, nightmarish and drugged out. Nate Hill is also a part of the group- amazing drummer who's involved in many, many, many projects.

This one features Charles Manson in the beginning and be sure to check out the lyrics in the video description: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqcTVVUFnKQ&feature=relmfu

More chaos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCgxi-h1PoI

Here's some interesting interviews with members:
http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/interview-death-grips.html
http://www.clashmusic.com/feature/death-grips-x-alec-empire
http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/8815-death-grips/

One more favorite of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAURatEXp9k

I picked up their newest 12" special limited on record store day! I have been a fan of these guys for awhile. Completely different and not your normal hip hop at all.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Fuck hip-hop. What should have been a worthy addition the the cannon of Black American music has turned into the the most worthless cock-suck of US capitalism.... Hip-hop has evolved like a mutant Dalek into the cancer of modern music, from a lean, keen, killing machine to some kind of "and the winner is" furniture muzak.

Dalek - the hip hop unit, not the mutant cancer - would certainly concur. But they would tell you, in so many words, that the hip hop to which you refer is not hip hop, but pop music. I`ve never quite bought that argument, but I`d like to. And I would if I readily ignored of a wider criticism which suggests that most - all - music is a worthless cock-suck of US capitalism. That other music(s) may seem to rub it all over your face in a less obvious way could merely suggest a more pernicious form of knob slobbery. Following through, one might even call Jay-Z - in all his sick-dick-in-your face-dness - a kind of folk hero in the way Nixon was for Burroughs; one who may ultimately help restore our healthy skepticism in the powers that would have us on our knees 24/7.

But, I doubt it.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Many times when someone recommend "experimental hip hop", trying to show how different it is from the mainstream or "usual" hip hop, I have exactly same feel as I have when people try to show how various underground forms of dub / reggae type of stuff is so noisy, obscure and hard.
I have yet to hear anything what I could say I liked in any level.

If we talk album the most traditional and most well known hip hop out there, pretty much everybody has heard it at some point of their life. Public Enemy, NWA, Ice-T and Ice Cube (until certain point when they sucked big time, etc). They all include the relatively slow flow and no stupid gimmicks in their rap style (until later). Manly lower voice with clear statements. I can't stand those Snoop style faggy whiny voiced rappers a second.  Chuck D and the types, who rely most of all to message of black empowerment, I can see why it's musically superior and lyrically relevant to the target audience (and perhaps more).

Couple years ago I bought a cdr demo from black guy selling his stuff in NYC street. First I told him I don't listen to hip hop and then his sale speech was that "do you think I'm some kind of bum. Look at these clothes man!"  Out of morbid curiosity I decided to spend 2$ for cdr demo of this guy who wanted to impress me with his expensive clothing. Needless to say the demo sucked big time, in every ways you could measure.

I'm there with Andrew McIntosh about the influence of hip hop. If it's not the music or artists, it's the general audience who is the most braindead white trash out there (judged from Finnish perspective).

[Bloated Slutbag]

Some time last year Dalek released an epic recording that few - bar MC "if I pick up a banjo it`s hip hop" Dalek - would call hip hop. A rambling 43 minute opus on Latitudes pitting a variety of textures against a backdrop of gloomy ambient drone. Panned dronage fades to gloom and a brief spoken word bit, giving way to denser atmospheres, sitars and tablas, and an unintelligible voice that eventually resolves into a pitch-shifted repetition of the spoken word which is cut to a loop of the phrase "to be inhuman". Some twenty minutes in, the tablas are replaced by a more industrial-ish rhythm and the only actual verse Dalek spits, his voice doubled then trebled, totalling all of twenty seconds, before sinking back to deep sea obscurity. Then the rise of a more rocking beat augmented by increasingly fuzzy guitars and more unintelligible voices which fade into cinematic, sitar-tinged, shimmer. The gloom persists, but acquires a more otherwordly bent. Finally, a second bit of spoken word comes in around the forty minute mark, sounding... resigned? hopeful? Both? Slow fade out.

Dalek insist on identifying with the hip hop world, but I would call them musicians first. There`s a great interview where producer Momin is asked who they sampled on their Absence album and he`s like, "Fuck you. You think some fucking shoegaze band could get a sound like that? We fucking learn to play our instruments. That`s not fucking sampling!"

Some of their themes sound like something Con-Dom would cover:

"The role of religion in the domination and destruction of African civilization is so shameful. No matter how you look at it, the picture is negative. Because all of them did more harm than good. All of them made their god ungodly."

Or Boyd Rice:

"The most painful truth in the making of America, a truth that shatters all pretentions of innocence and undercuts all efforts of denial, is that the enslavement of Africans and the imperial expansion over indigenous people in their lands were undeniable preconditions for the possibility of American democracy."