On not being an artist

Started by Brad, June 27, 2012, 04:34:37 AM

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Andrew McIntosh

Hey, why did Crumer delete his posts? I thought he made some of the best points.
Shikata ga nai.

online prowler

Shame,

don't know if I fully remember the content, but it may prove (I might be threading ice here) that the topic launched is quite daring and tender. Hate to see people censuring themselves, should be no need for that. Hope Crumer will repost his reply. My apologies if my assumptions in this reply where ill draughted, or if I threaded on toes.  

Zeno Marx

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on June 28, 2012, 06:03:13 AM
Hey, why did Crumer delete his posts? I thought he made some of the best points.
He was posting as a Guest, and in that, it makes some sense that he only wanted a temporary presence.  Cannot give a good reason why, but I like it.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

online prowler


FreakAnimalFinland

He had guest status only because he left the forum (deleting account requires moderator to finish it).
Too bad people appear to be busy editing/deleting their post as soon as they have said something worthy of reading.. then ruining the flow of topics when there's replies for messages that aren't there anymore.

I'm sure Crumer would have had good messages. Unfortunately didn't see any of them.
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martialgodmask

Quote from: tiny_tove on June 27, 2012, 10:08:10 AM
Quote from: crumer on June 27, 2012, 10:06:49 AM
"I do noise so I am your brother" died a long time ago.
THANK GOD FOR THAT!

I've fortunately never been exposed to this kind of attitude in noise. It is one of the stains of being a metal fan that I always loathed, the constant reassurance that all metallers are brothers in arms, individuality through dis-individualising bullshit.

tiny_tove

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martialgodmask

Don't get me wrong, I did and to a strong degree still do love metal. I just hate metal fans, or rather, "those" fans.

tiny_tove

I completely understand what you mean and I repeat, I agree.
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HongKongGoolagong

Quote from: online prowler on June 28, 2012, 05:47:13 AM
I still find it strange that I haven't heard of any a-cappella noise choirs. That'd fucking great!  

I've performed Paragraph 7 of Cornelius Cardew's 'The Great Learning' as part of a scratch ensemble put together by APATT...that was pretty much accapella noise choir. It was also really fucking hard work to concentrate on, so was the Steve Reich 'Clapping Music' we did.

online prowler

#25
Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on June 28, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
Quote from: online prowler on June 28, 2012, 05:47:13 AM
I still find it strange that I haven't heard of any a-cappella noise choirs. That'd fucking great!  

I've performed Paragraph 7 of Cornelius Cardew's 'The Great Learning' as part of a scratch ensemble put together by APATT...that was pretty much accapella noise choir. It was also really fucking hard work to concentrate on, so was the Steve Reich 'Clapping Music' we did.

A bit of sidetrack from the topic, nevertheless: The statement re choir was made in a context as to illustrate there is no need for equipment, outer ideology- or praise in order to develop- and produce own material. I see your point though HKG and personally I appreciate Cardew's work immensely. True pioneer in his field. I'll dig up his work Treatise and listen to it one of these days. In my minds eye I had more an image of a choir in the lines of p.e vox, not contemporary compositions.  

online prowler

#26
Think this thread could be read parallel to: CHANGE OF CLIMATE IN NOISE / SOCIAL FACTOR / GENERATION ME. Makes a good addition.  

Bloated Slutbag

Quote from: online prowler on June 28, 2012, 05:47:13 AM
I still find it strange that I haven't heard of any a-cappella noise choirs. That'd fucking great!

Tokyo Orthodox Noise Choir:

http://www.myspace.com/music/player?song=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myspace.com%2F469872728%2Fmusic%2Fsongs%2Fdedicated-to-joe-lombardo-47287236

Kicks in at about 2:50...

This was their second performance, circa 2002. Vocalizers include members of Incapacitants, Cracksteel, Mothra, Facialmess, Kazumoto Endo, etc. Conducted by  Joe "#1 Noise Fan" Lombardo, to whom the event - FUCK MY ASS vol. 2 - was dedicated.

Yes, that's right! Dedicated to "the number one noise fan in the universe". The phenomenon of a non-artist, non-producing, non-mutually masturbating fan of noise - an incredibly enthusiastic one, and of some considertable taste at that - was as refreshing as it was essential to the restoring of faith in "the spirit of noise". I understand that Soddy, a firm believer in the power of choral music - noise-minded and otherwise - took this project very seriously (re- online prowler's Devotional Music Topic), though the manifest strength of that conviction may lose some in the (chemically adled) execution...

Lombardo's enthusiasm also appears in Guilty Connector's amazing "Brighter Than 10,000 Cacophonous Suns", taken from that same FUCK MY ASS event

http://www.last.fm/music/Guilty+Connector/_/Brighter+Than+10,000+Cacophonous+Suns


Richard Ramirez would also dedicate a release or two to Joe Lombardo:

http://archive.org/details/xvp26

etc, etc


Personally, I'd take the shining glory of 10,000 enthusiastic Lombardos over the massive circle jerk currently in operation. But that's just me.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

online prowler


This is what I am talking 'bout! Just up your ass and do it- plain and simple. A faint spell rung when you dropped TONC. Think a friend mentioned them in the passing once. Seems I deleted the info from my harddrive though. Anyways.. your input Bloated Slutbag indicates that enthusiasm and will can make the ball roll. Kinda enjoy the pro-verbal turd the projects mentioned dump on concepts of noise culture and choral music. No institution should be worshipped. 

RyanWreck

#29
I'm not an artist. I've recorded some of my own stuff but never released it and don't plan on it. Maybe in the future I can get my project up and going but the sound I want is difficult to get with the equipment that I have and can even afford.

What I do is simply The Pure Stench. Interviews and reviews from Power Electronics, Industrial and Noise groups. I did some art for the next Exoteric zine and I've done some other small pieces just for the Stench, but that is really as far as my "art project" goes. I also run another forum somewhat like this but with just a bit more choice (there is of course a Noise/PE/Industrial forum as well as a Metal sub-forum, Hardcore/Post-Punk sub-forum, General Discussion, etc) - http://stenchforums.net . I feel like right now my site and my forums are the best contribution that I can personally add, and I'm happy with just doing that for now.

Quote1) Do you believe industrial music is an art form that ANYONE, especially the musically talentless, can contribute to if they want to?  That's one of the myths that originally drew me to it, often alluded to in the early interviews of Throbbing Gristle, but I'm not sure I believe it now.  Maybe some people are naturally inclined to be capable industrial musicians, and some people aren't.  I'm not sure if by giving up I'm being more honest or lazy.

I've wrote about this pretty extensively but I'll post what my main point is from my blog...

Is it a good thing to be open-minded in small genres such as Noise, Power Electronics (even Black Metal) these days? There are all too many people out there who record their static hiss onto a cassette, xerox the cover art and call it a solid release. This is not exciting. Words like "art" and "creative medium" are no excuse. An attention to detail and a clear explanation for action should be upheld as they are in any other genre. The argument that art is not art until it is communicated is a true statement. But what the fuck makes everyone think that they are an artist, or at least that their choice of expression is the correct fit for them? The phrase "I create art in order to _______" (fill in the blank) is a good starting point. Why bother if your answer is "I create art in order to fill in the blank"? Before you set out there and play with your pedals please do keep in mind that bad art is bad because it does not evoke the feelings in which it is supposed to be representing, not because it isn't "pretty" or understood in mass. The lack of intention and sincerity can be picked up on easily.

"...If it is not admitted that art must be intelligible and comprehensible, then any unintelligible or incomprehensible expression of thoughts or feelings may be called "art." If any incomprehensible form of personal expression may be called "art," then the definition of art gradually loses its meaning, until it has no meaning at all." - Tolstoy

(this section is taken from a comment I made in the same post)....art is very subjective. It is actually one of the only forms of communication that remains "completely personal". There is that which is perceiving the art, that which created the art to be perceived and the act, itself, of perceiving it. If "that which created the art to be perceived" has no intention behind it than, I personally believe, the process is severed at that point and the act of perceiving is reduced to the same level of communication as mopping the floor. I don't want people to think that what this little paragraph means is that if I don't like or understand the art than it isn't art. That's not true at all although I could see it being mistaken due to the Tolstoy quote. It is only when the art is created in vain, with no intention, that it is "bad art". As one would imagine this presents itself more frequently once you start getting towards more abstract forms such as Noise. But this doesn't mean that a standard of some sort should not be upheld. I believe that if this standard, however loose it is, collapses than the genre is in trouble of dying. And when it does then these "anti-art" people sweep it up and add the tag "post-whatever" as if they are proud that they killed it.


I don't know if that is a great answer but it is just the way I personally feel about the whole thing. And it is the reason I don't release any of my material - I don't think the stuff I have recorded is up to par.