Important: Scams, begging, pre-sales, etc

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Note that recently within "noise scene" there has been these scam e-mails or forum postings about someone being in trouble and needing your (financial) help. Don't be fool and assume anyone wanting anything to do with credit card payments and such be person who needs your help.
Advice such topics to moderator and they will be erased.

General rules for financial matters of forum:
-No begging
-No urgent emergency messages about whatever trouble we're supposed to believe someone has gotten himself to
-No pre-sales of stuff what you can't manufacture & ship in reasonable time. Preferably no pre-sale at all.


If you see such topics, report to moderator.

[murderous_vision]

What about good old fashioned grifting? Hehe...

[Strömkarlen]

-No begging

What about Kickstarter and such? To me it is borderline begging and it is sure as hell pre-sales involved. That said I will probably launch an indiegogo campaign for a film that might interest people around here in the future so I just wonder if it is kosher or not?

[bitewerksMTB]

-No begging

What about Kickstarter and such? To me it is borderline begging and it is sure as hell pre-sales involved. That said I will probably launch an indiegogo campaign for a film that might interest people around here in the future so I just wonder if it is kosher or not?

I recently read something about Kickstarter & other similiar things, making Government-funded art a little less necessary. The writer didn't think that was such a good thing.

On Kickstarter, does the project only get funded if they reach that specific amount? How do they guarantee that someone who said they'll give money, actually gives the money when it's time?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

-No begging

What about Kickstarter and such? To me it is borderline begging and it is sure as hell pre-sales involved. That said I will probably launch an indiegogo campaign for a film that might interest people around here in the future so I just wonder if it is kosher or not?

Kickstarter for things that are related to forum is ok. Make sure you make clear what are the conditions.
IF someone is looking into putting out 10xLP box and needs funds for it, why not. If someone needs to make traveling vacations with excuse of "projects" happening somewhere, I think it gets already to slightly dubious levels.

Whole fishing for quick support feels somehow repulsive to me. I understand that not all have the money ready to do massive release. But then you can ask should they? How much stuff should happen most of all based on something what is almost equal to "customer research", "market planning" etc..
And how many cancelled kickstarter things there needs to be, when even relevant ideas & projects get ignored because "ah, again some kickstarter campaign that's gonna fail".
For physical noise release, I simply don't think this kind of thing would be necessary. For production of films, documentaries etc, probably handy.

[Strömkarlen]

-No begging

What about Kickstarter and such? To me it is borderline begging and it is sure as hell pre-sales involved. That said I will probably launch an indiegogo campaign for a film that might interest people around here in the future so I just wonder if it is kosher or not?

For physical noise release, I simply don't think this kind of thing would be necessary. For production of films, documentaries etc, probably handy.

I agree with you Mikko concerning noise release. The project I'm thinking of is a documentary about music and we are thinking about trying to raise funds through Indiegogo since they work with people outside the US. I must say I've been very reluctant to go down the Kickstarter route since I have done the pre-sale blunder of thinking it is ok to announce a release before I actually have it my had hand. We'll see. I'll keep you posted.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I'm not too concerned about individual cases. I would be more concerned when it becomes trend or routine.

To me it would appear to be healthy situation where material is done due utmost confidence, attitude that this MUST be made, no matter if there is "audience". And because of that belief, one would be ready to take risk. Be it borrow money from friend or take loan from bank. And because of that risk, you put your best effort. And there are serious things at stake.
If we end up in situation where you need to basically commit to buy stuff, which may or may not be out - it feels ridiculous. Each month asking questions could I afford to buy this LP, since there might be couple of Kickstarter LP boxes soon billed from my credit card... or not. Who knows if they will be out in form they were advertized, or maybe re-launched with differences or just cancelled.

Now in Finland is launched similar site. Don't know its name, but was told about it recently. I'm sure there will be flood of artists, businesses and all sorts of scammers who want funds to do things they don't really believe in.

[Levas]

yesterday i've received a funny email so i thought i'd let you know. all over various boards people are writing that this is some sort of a rip off from Peru.

HAILZ LUCIFER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEILSA DEMONIACS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAILZ FROM SOUTH AMERICA TERRORISM ATTACK !!!!!

THIS IS A NEW BIBLE OF THIS SHITS OCCULTISM MAGAZINE !!!!! FROM PERU

in this case the co editor will like to do it the reviews of yours prestige LABEL / BANDS / ZINES / NEWSLETTERS / FANCIZES / RADIOS METAL SHOWS/ WEBZINES /  to reviews here yours stuffs and also interview and put yours songs in my cd compilations ( free appear ) and promotion with flyers put yours logo and pics here in 2000 flyers arounds the world...

let me now ?
dpto of press

OCCULTISM MAGAZINE / PRODUCTIONS / PROMOTE
c/o lord sanguinary
editor

[Mikerdeath]

http://chondriticsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53018
Oh well, you live and learn, and sometimes get ripped the fuck off!

Yep. Luckily I did not need to even look at an internet form to learn this one.

I'm not too concerned about individual cases. I would be more concerned when it becomes trend or routine.

To me it would appear to be healthy situation where material is done due utmost confidence, attitude that this MUST be made, no matter if there is "audience". And because of that belief, one would be ready to take risk. Be it borrow money from friend or take loan from bank. And because of that risk, you put your best effort. And there are serious things at stake.
If we end up in situation where you need to basically commit to buy stuff, which may or may not be out - it feels ridiculous. Each month asking questions could I afford to buy this LP, since there might be couple of Kickstarter LP boxes soon billed from my credit card... or not. Who knows if they will be out in form they were advertized, or maybe re-launched with differences or just cancelled.

Now in Finland is launched similar site. Don't know its name, but was told about it recently. I'm sure there will be flood of artists, businesses and all sorts of scammers who want funds to do things they don't really believe in.

Well said.

[RyanWreck]

Hah, I like the e-mail... derbunkarrecords, it's not even fucking close. Most of the time you can actually just use one of the handful's of other "e's" from a Unicode table and they will usually register the email and correct the letter. So you can steal e-mails that are already registered by simply registering it as derbunkērrecords (or whatever), and the registrar/name server will accept it with that funny little ē, but most services will just correct it to look like the normal "e" when you post it. So that is another thing to look out for, the only way you can tell is by looking in the e-mail header when you send or receive a message from the person. I stole a moderators name this way on an old Metal forum and PM'd the admin telling him that my moderator status was deleted and to re-activate it, viola.

[RyanWreck]

Just to give an example, my new user name (getting around the ban's set on using a similar name) and although you can see a difference if you looked close enough, most people wouldn't if they just saw me in their PM's. And now that I have used the same avatar as Mikko on top of the new name, and if I added the same signature, I'm sure I could easily trick a few of you in private messages or whatever.

P.S. This is RyanWreck and I will change my name back first thing in the morning, I just wanted to show this not so obvious security flaw that is way too easy to execute. It's also kind of easy to fix as well.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Internet is full of possibilities of tricks and fraud. I would be cautious of any unusual request what involved money being asked or somehow extraordinary deals suggested.
I often find it quite weird that people do change their e-mail addresses frequently making it nearly pure assumption that they guy who writes you is the same guy. I think it would be merely someone wanting to spend time on creating disinformation chaos, and it would happen.

Edit: and when original forum settings was done, I took some measures of restricted names, like: Admin, Root, Mikko, Aspa, Freak, Animal, Jew, Nigger, ... and so on..  hehe..  Bunch of things what can't appear on someone name. For sake of clarity or for sake of keeping cheap vulgar provocateurs in leash.  There ain't possibilities to prevent all sort of variations happening (Nlgger, ANlMAL, etc) other than kick out & ban when seeing it happen.