Our Interests, central or marginal to the whole of Industrial culture?

[HongKongGoolagong]

Take SPK's Auto da Fe. There are different Styles which could used for Diferent Scene Names (Industrial, Power Electronics Angst Pop to name some) on one Album.

Side two of that was originally recorded as an SPK side-project under another name - the first attempts of a long series of mostly terrible tries at more commercial sounds from Revell - he finally succeeded of course with his very bland soundtrack work which has got him a swimming pool in the Hollywood Hills.

Yet some of the old school who went into The Big Sell-Out period produced some excellent material. Laibach "Opus Dei" is funny and clever and sounds great. Clock DVA "Buried Dreams" was much more 'commercial' than their earlier stuff but better music - it's fantastically sleazy and insanely pretentious at the same time, nothing not to like about that record.

The guy who actually came up with the name Industrial for a genre back in 1976 finally got round to releasing his first ever album a couple of years ago (discounting collaborations, compilations and live releases). Monte Cazazza's "The Cynic" was a brilliant collection of intelligent and varied material (with lots of help from Brian Lustmord) ranging from Morricone to acid house, all with trademark black humour. I must have been one of the few people on the planet who actually bought and heard it! I can't imagine he's made anything like a decent living from art over the years. If we are all moaning about having our favourite microgenre misrepresented, imagine how he feels when he has to pass some pierced and tatted "industrial" rivet clone in the street.

A whole heap of influences went into the 'other' industrial. The culture of TG 'Slug Bait' and 'Hamburger Lady' created the early 80s UK and Italian original PE scene which led to what Special Interests discusses, whereas I can hear the echo of Foetus (an indisputable first wave Industrial icon) in so much of the Industrial-Goth stuff, as well as Chris & Cosey and odd 80s noise-dance-industrial things like Tackhead.

Musically and conceptually the 'other' industrial holds a lot less interest for me than this one and especially nowadays, but there certainly are many much worse types of music around than these silly Goths make. Crunkcore or screamo anyone?

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Laibach "Opus Dei" is funny and clever and sounds great.

Has some great tunes but I think the one before that, Nova Akropola, is much more consistent. I think they were more or less great up until the AWFUL Nato and all the dreadful weak disco crap they've churned out since.

Clock DVA "Buried Dreams" was much more 'commercial' than their earlier stuff but better music - it's fantastically sleazy and insanely pretentious at the same time, nothing not to like about that record.

A masterpiece. Not a weak track there. Same goes for the album that followed, Man-Amplified.

The Klinik, in my opinion, were the perfect combination of EBM and industrial. An outstanding group!

There are plenty of links between "that industrial" and "the other industrial". Skinny Puppy more or less started when Nivek and Key were introduced to TG by an Austrian kid called Bill Leeb. Front 242 were inspired by TG as well as Musique Concrete when they recorded Geography. Another outstanding album. A somewhat funny story is when Jack Dangers from Meat Beat Manifesto, who is a big fan of Cabaret Voltaire and TG, had his then American label Wax Trax talk about their industrial bands. Expecting the sound of SPK or something he was most puzzled when being played shite like Thrill Kill Kult etc.

[ConcreteMascara]

The one thing you've got to keep in mind is that so much of what is labeled as noise / industrial / power electronics / electro-industrial / rhythmic noise and how it's labeled all comes down to marketing. I've read on techno websites selling Vatican Shadow that it was harsh power electronics and in rock stores that Skinny Puppy is hard as nails industrial noise. the confusion comes from magazines and record sellers constantly needing to label things in a way that will make them sell.

[Zeno Marx]

Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Rob Zombie...

Instant credibility and buzz word re-definition when you associate it with names of this caliber of draw.  Toss MTV a promo video or ad spot with the term "industrial" in it, and it is instantly part of the pop music lexicon.  Or run an ad with Rolling Stone or get a single review with that word in use.  And when you're trying to appeal to a "harder" crowd, mostly metalEds, industrial is a smart way to go.  Has that blue collar, rough and manly implication automatically associated with it.  Instant interest.  This was also around the time when goths and art types were befriending Metallica, The Cult (Rick Rubin years), etc.  Historically, a few things fell into place for the term to be bastardized, redefined, and used as a sharp marketing weapon.

I can remember opening up Industrial Nation, and it looking very much like a metal magazine.  Not limited to the music, but fashion and aesthetics had also crossed paths with the electro-hybrid metal music.  It looked industrial.  Only makes sense because it was never about the sounds anyway.

EDIT:  was thinking about this and the power of MTV at that time.  John Norris was somehow involved with 120 Minutes; host or writer or producer.  I believe he also had something to do with Rolling Stone (maybe that was Kurt Loder).  I'd bet a good chunk of money that if you combed through those first five years of 120 Minutes, someone mentioned Throbbing Gristle or Psychic TV.  My point is that I wouldn't be surprised if the redefinition of industrial was spread somewhere on MTV.  The idea likely came out of a marketing boardroom, but MTV must've been a key player in exposure to it.  It would be so much easier to take an already used term and redefine it.  It has a built-in credibility from the underground fringe types, and is attractive in the ways I already mentioned.

[Jordan]

This is kind of unrelated, but I've been thinking about putting out a comp of Canadian PE/Industrial kind of stuff for a little while. Would you be interested in helping out with this Brad? Post-production on my documentary is winding down, and I feel like taking on some projects when it's done. At the very least, I know that you are rather talented on the graphic design front and could help out with that. I'll PM you my number and perhaps we could talk about this more some time.

[Andrew McIntosh]

A quick scout around Google for Industrial Music History gives me the impression, from disco bunny's personal take to wordy, weighty academic chin-stroking, that Industrial music is seen outside of our minutiae obsessiveness as part of what is generally called "electronic music" these days, hence the popular connection with dance music. Which is not far from the truth of the origins of it, I suppose.

[Brad]

Meanwhile, Sutcliffe Jugend was just confirmed for the primarily goth/EBM festival Wave-Gotik-Treffen in Germany.  Didn't see that one coming. 

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Meanwhile, Sutcliffe Jugend was just confirmed for the primarily goth/EBM festival Wave-Gotik-Treffen in Germany.  Didn't see that one coming. 

If got good salary... they could play even in Christian festivals. The place isn't important.... but money, for some of them, of course, and maybe for all?

[Brad]

Sure, I'm just surprised that WGT is interested in a band like SJ.  North American goth/EBM festivals would never consider them.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Sure, I'm just surprised that WGT is interested in a band like SJ.  North American goth/EBM festivals would never consider them.

WGT is really huge festival with a few scenes. There played many "trve industrial" acts in the past. I think this festival isn't good example how "easy-sounded" industrial bands should be connected with more "experimental" industrial acts. If I may express my opinion in this topic, I am not follower playing anywhere for anybody, considering only financial status in this case.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Most noise bands play where they are invited to play. Grunt also played in Finnish gothic fest. Not because it would be way to make money (it's not), but because bands who play live, often accept gig offers from gig organizers even if it's not inside event of scene.

Wave-Gotik-Treffen has had all sorts of Tesco/CMI and possibly Cold Spring bands before, just about every year, right? I don't think it's big surprise.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

On the latter side, here, in Poland is big event called: WROCLAW INDUSTRIAL FESTIVAL. And so? here play industrial acts with gothic, neofolk, avant-garde of rock and other rock-idiot artists. Maybe this is good way to popularize valuable music, who knows... but I don't buy it.

[Jaakko V.]

Most noise bands play where they are invited to play. Grunt also played in Finnish gothic fest. Not because it would be way to make money (it's not), but because bands who play live, often accept gig offers from gig organizers even if it's not inside event of scene.

Wave-Gotik-Treffen has had all sorts of Tesco/CMI and possibly Cold Spring bands before, just about every year, right? I don't think it's big surprise.

Yeah... I've heard a rumour that there's also gonna be a stage/venue for Loki Foundation + other dark ambient related stuff this year.

[tiny_tove]

Most noise bands play where they are invited to play. Grunt also played in Finnish gothic fest. Not because it would be way to make money (it's not), but because bands who play live, often accept gig offers from gig organizers even if it's not inside event of scene.

Wave-Gotik-Treffen has had all sorts of Tesco/CMI and possibly Cold Spring bands before, just about every year, right? I don't think it's big surprise.

90% of Italo-industrial gigs from the 90'suntil now have been organized in mixed Goth (and some Metal) environment. This led to many positive things (more people, more funny environment, more women getting involved, etc.) but also to a loss of valuable concepts, too much aestetic and dreadful dj-sets that must start at a fixed time, so in case of problems you play less to not disappoint the youngest elements of the crowd who come to such events just to dance.
they are the ones that fill the room, pay for drinks etc.

there have been some exception of course, like Regio Manicomio in Turin and the Congresso Post Industriale in Prato, where most people was there actually for the gigs no more no less than in Germany, and the dance started well after the gig.

in the latest years there are more people organizing stuff, especially in noisier scenes. smaller venues in special places, etc.
the guys of Hundebiss made really nice events in Milan, then some guys in Turin, just to name a few.

due to tinnitus I do not attend to gigs anymore, but I like these thematic events, like the HNW festivals of the last year or the drone/ambient night (with sleepover party) at the Boccaccio squat in Monza.

[tisbor]

Congresso Post Industriale in Prato

I have the nice memory of a song by The Cure being played right after Whitehouse finished playing. Priceless.

I must confess that sometimes I do watch some "industrial dancing" videos on youtube in total awe. The ridiculous costumes and moves are captivating.