David R/Brethren etc. ?

Started by l.b., January 31, 2014, 10:28:45 PM

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Cranial Blast

#45
Quote from: BlackCavendish on May 08, 2024, 12:18:58 PM
Quote from: LigmaEnigma on May 08, 2024, 11:21:59 AMThe Chosen feels unambiguously sincere.

Maybe yes, maybe no. My point is that it doesn't matter that much.

I'm with your sentiment 100%. None of this shit matters, not one bit! Why we are even discussing it on a noise forum is absurd to begin with and quite frankly I don't understand the people who are into PE/Noise or even Black Metal that try and attach this equity attitude given to a culture that is often rooted in misanthropy, should there be any surprise that maybe the genre has some extreme views at times from certain artists? I don't get that one bit and like you say it doesn't matter where the artist stands personally, it doesn't matter where they supposedly stand politically, art comes above all things first and foremost. It's not like the listener of Brethren has to engage in skinhead hooliganism now, if I listen to Richard Ramirez with highly gay sexual shit, doesn't mean I have to be queer now! I think a lot of this attitude of poking at an artists poltical views or beliefs is just a way for people to get triggered into something to bitch about out of boredom. I don't sincerely believe anyone gives the big shits they act like, they just act like they do now because "equity" ideas are the flavor of the week.

Moran

#46
Brethren is as unambiguous as can be; the lyrics and imagery are based on common US right-wing ideas, expressed with passion, without perceivable irony or reservations.

One can avoid thinking about possibly uncomfortable aspects that can be found in the releases - like Rodgers' personal views - if he/she wants, but those aspects would persist regardless of the listener's preferences. That the artist's views don't matter is often expressed by those attempting to make politically unconventional artists more personally acceptable to listen to. With a deeply political artist like Brethren, whose views are integrated into his works, to try to distance the artist's views from his works would significantly impair one's understanding of his works.

FreakAnimalFinland

I ended up publishing his works almost by accident. First album as well as 10" was supposed to be on other labels. It took long time for those labels to finally admit it can not be done. When FA displayed it can be done, 7" and second album came directly to FA.
My experience, as publisher of most of those works is that people listen it for wide variety of reasons. One also has to understand that not everybody in noise speaks so fluent english, that topic of music would come very clearly in-your-face. It may be simply musically good and that's that. However, of course, content itself matters but  people from different countries react on it in different ways. Lets say Japanese fans, I recall everybody being very positive about it. Ethnocentric perspective over there would barely raise eyebrows. Albums caused plenty of discussion, and even surprising support from highly surprising characters. People may assume its the east european meatheads that listen this stuff, but reality may be notch different.

Albums are stylistically quite different in lyrics. Also musically Brethren established very unique style where vocals are short shouted patterns arranged into kind of mechanical rhythmic pattern. Whitehouse did the vocal cut type of thing in their 2000's works, but it is not like this. Brethren used rhythmically pronounced lines in combination of loops and sound fragments in unusual way nobody else was doing. I recall talking to one long time heavy electronics label guy who mentioned could care less of the lyrical content, but stuff itself is interesting and new.  I am sure albums did sell also for people who could care less for sound, and just bought it for the content. Thing about Brethren is curious, that unlike some projects on this orientation, it is never vulgar or obscene. Perhaps first album still has small traces of that, but later on, it is intentionally almost academically dry language without any offending vocabulary. As seen in messages, some people will consider this as "lack of humor".
Project ended when all was said and musically all was done and artists felt it would be just repeating more of same  and therefore not perfectly sincere. Very much like Con-Dom, when final release was done, things completed, that was that, and in finest tradition of industrial culture, "mission terminated". If I happen to get permission for CD represses some day, I'll surely get them done.

E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Manhog_84

#48
Quote from: Cementimental on May 08, 2024, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Manhog_84 on May 08, 2024, 07:46:57 AMA social justice warrior on Power Electronics forum, which all can agree is in 2024 a laughably stupid thing to be.

"being a neo-nazi is bad and stupid' is not a 'social justice warrior' position it's a 'every normal person' position. (ok that's still a fairly unusual thing to be on a PE forum)

Heh, a certified "normal person" stands against all things bad. Defined by which instance? Regarding the original poster's history on this forum, some of the messages already removed, it's clear that his input has been mostly nazis this nazis that trolling. Same kind of content that the long-time gone Troniks forum was full of. Nothing but a SJW.

Regarding reissues. In these days when everything is politicized, I'd assume there would be even more interest. Don't know how many CDs were originally pressed but they seem hard to find nowadays. I have heard both tape and CD versions of Organized Resistance, and the latter had a superior sound. Edit. The tape version I had was from an older batch years ago, and could have been an individual case. So not related to any of the new dubs.

Couple of interview links from another Brethren topic:
Quote from: goldameir on December 16, 2022, 10:22:36 AM
Quote from: SIEGSIEGSIEG on December 15, 2022, 03:59:19 PMHere's for the interested:
TeRRoR interview, https://web.archive.org/web/20130314080622/http://www.terror.lt/news/78/61/Brethren.html
Plaguehaus interview, https://web.archive.org/web/20091002042032/http://plaguehaus.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=201&Itemid=26

Bigsby

#49
Manhog is so sensitive fucking snowflake why is that if someone points out  that nazis are clowns your reaction is "SJW! SJW!?" The topic is brethren, a contemporary political noise act. But don't talk about contemporary politics

This idea is that somehow if an artist "reflects" on pedophilia for example and is in fact a child rapist I ought to separate the two? Get the hell outta here ya antisocial warriors hahaha . 

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: Manhog_84 on May 09, 2024, 11:27:05 AMDon't know how many CDs were originally pressed but they seem hard to find nowadays.

I recall 500 of each album CD and tapes, probably less than 200.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: Bigsby on May 09, 2024, 12:53:26 PMThis idea is that somehow if an artist "reflects" on pedophilia for example and is in fact a child rapist I ought to separate the two?

I recall older neofolk discussion, where usual problem was: if the music and lyrics really has nothing outrageous in them, but there can be strong assumption guys may have sort of ...hmm.. eccentric ideas... should the band be allowed to play? Some felt like of course they should be allowed. If the music has zero problematic things, then why it should matter if artist may have said or done something questionable in past. This lead into greatest hypothetical question: what if Hitler had neofolk band, could he play in the left leaning underground festival, if the band had no obvious political content? I guess there are couple different ways to look at this dilemma, which can both be justified, but at least, I know I'd like to hear that band!

Mr. Bigsby current contribution to forum has been almost exclusively trolling and off topic bickering with other users, so I suggest to check out the forum guidelines. 
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Bigsby

#52
How about a new guideline: if the noise act is a very deliberate political project , please don't talk about  his  political ideology. Hahahh

FreakAnimalFinland

Just to make sure people do get it: Talking anything related to art of specific noise artist is doing is fine. Also expressing dislike and disapproval when necessary. Derailing into tiresome us daily politics or whatever can be done on other platforms. Frequently bickering with, name calling and trolling other users, will get one kicked out if couple removed posts and little reminder won't work.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

BatteredStatesofEuphoria

Maybe he stopped doing music precisely because every discussion of it inevitably devolved into something like this thread....

Cementimental

#55
Quote from: Bigsby on May 08, 2024, 10:05:05 PMFair enough. Anyone have a review/rip of the  Micronauts Electronics record? Timothy McVeigh viewed things through a strict Stars Wars lens, so maybe a deep dive into the Microverse would shed some light on Rodger's nuanced worldviews.


My motivation for doing either is extremely low and under a tall metaphorical stack of other rare / stupid things I should really rip and put online one of these days. Would definitely consider selling the thing for a suitably astronomical price to someone here who is more dedicated to the whole "I can't believe these woke extremist SJWs are calling me a nazi simply because I make pro-nazi music and am a nazi!!!" side of things.

Quote from: BatteredStatesofEuphoria on May 09, 2024, 04:31:41 PMMaybe he stopped doing music precisely because every discussion of it inevitably devolved into something like this thread....
Well you know what they say, "Ask a silly question..."

Bigsby

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 09, 2024, 01:51:08 PM
Quote from: Bigsby on May 09, 2024, 12:53:26 PMThis idea is that somehow if an artist "reflects" on pedophilia for example and is in fact a child rapist I ought to separate the two?

I recall older neofolk discussion, where usual problem was: if the music and lyrics really has nothing outrageous in them, but there can be strong assumption guys may have sort of ...hmm.. eccentric ideas... should the band be allowed to play? Some felt like of course they should be allowed. If the music has zero problematic things, then why it should matter if artist may have said or done something questionable in past. This lead into greatest hypothetical question: what if Hitler had neofolk band, could he play in the left leaning underground festival, if the band had no obvious political content? I guess there are couple different ways to look at this dilemma, which can both be justified, but at least, I know I'd like to hear that band!

Mr. Bigsby current contribution to forum has been almost exclusively trolling and off topic bickering with other users, so I suggest to check out the forum guidelines. 

How does this remind you of that?
Brethren's  lyrics are clear and he owned them. Nazi content from a Nazi. Why are fans so triggered by this? I do like the idea of this dream team neo folk project though!

Cementimental

If Hitler had got into neofolk WWII would never have happened

QuoteYou know, Hitler wanted to be an artist. At eighteen he took his inheritance, seven hundred kronen, and moved to Vienna to live and study... Ever see one of his paintings? Neither have I. Resistance beat him. Call it overstatement but I'll say it anyway: it was easier for Hitler to start World War II than it was for him to face a blank square of canvas.

- Steven Pressfield, "The War of Art"

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: Bigsby on May 09, 2024, 11:49:31 PMHow does this remind you of that?
Brethren's  lyrics are clear and he owned them. Nazi content from a Nazi. Why are fans so triggered by this?

I would assume that within industrial culture milieu, there are a lot of people who simply do not look things from most simple-minded way. Being interested in things what exactly is being said, possibly why it is being said and how it's being said. It appears in lines of calling Militia (band) commies. Sure we all know why it could be done and it could be considered "close enough", but we also know it is not true.

I am not concerned that one makes conclusion that there is Nazi content from a Nazi, but that one would pretend as if that sentence would somehow display any relevant information about actual qualities of work. It is not very long time ago, when there was (yet another) discussion about dirty history of industrial/power electronics/noise fascist connections. Instead of discussing what types of approaches this has generated, what kind of genre changing things it has caused, possibly even what type of impact on the world as large it may have cause, all we get is wailing, and some vague canceling suggestions that remain unnamed. Nothing else.

Fringe right -ideas is such a plethora of things, often conflicting with eachother, often nothing to do with traditional right wing whatsoever, often esoteric, often not universal but bound for time and place. Some branches mutate into new things due their evolutionary nature, and barely resemble old form. Or oddities, like Aleksandr Lebedev-Frontov for example, his role as active member of National Bolshevik Party same time he was creating the masterpieces of Ultra label. As interesting as THAT topic could be, we know, large fraction of the scene can only adhere to "nazi this nazi that" level "discussion" and insist derailing every topic ever briefly gives such possibility - it suppresses possibility to discuss actually interesting things. And note: It doesn't mean approval or celebration. It may mean simply being curious of the driving forces and personality behind the expression. We can be sure, that level of expression present in "NON" or "Death In June", or "Brethren" is not based on cheap hate mongering, but there is more to it. While doing that opportunity to really dig deeper into some artists ideas and motivations would vanish in the usual ways it does when agitated retards are present.

This forum is primarily meant for advancing industrial/noise/power electronics culture discussion. People who prefer to merely talk shit, as mentioned, there are reddit, Facebook, and whatever places to go to. I would suppose everybody understands the obvious that Brethren is pro-white material with heavy anti-zionist stance and it comes in all honesty without irony. I would suppose that if there is discussion, it could happen beyond the obvious. I have no problem to clean up forum messages or members, lock topics etc, but it will be done when needed.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Bigsby

Got it. But I do think the true trolling in this thread is found in things like "there's more to nazis than your narrow generalization" or "we are missing the chance to talk about the impact this has had on the world"