Quote from: Force Neurotic on October 29, 2018, 10:59:19 PM
Quote from: PTM Jim on October 29, 2018, 09:57:46 PM
Punk also used to be against the norm and mean something. Now they are all just preaching to the choir and are mundane at best.
Well-said. Pretty hard to live up to Discharge, in all fairness. They had the whole lyrics = left slogan thing down to a T and nobody really did it better.
There has been several studies about this matter. Recently was listening lecture of couple leftwing academics who did a study based on "does right wing have best parties now". Party - not as political party, but party as having fun.
Several decades ago, right was associated with conservative, lame choir boys, all the strict rules and oppressive moralism. While anything associated with left, offered freedom, good time, great music, sex, drugs and rock'n'roll type of revolution so to say.
While the old moralist and conservative right still exists, there has been drastic move, where formerly good parties of left are now ruined by moralists and dogmatic rules gone so specific, and any violation is approached with such a mob uproar, quite normal man is utterly alienated.
While the two academics had critical analysis of why left fails, they didn't have guts to identify the cause or classify it as problem. They were circulating around the subject constantly, wary of what they could say. Always starting sentences in a style like "we don't mean that there is something wrong with ehmm.. to stand for rights of.. ehmm... It is important, hmm, but we just observe the side effect what it causes..". You know, it doesn't matter if you are educated, civilized, good mannered leftist academic, but you know damn well you better not piss off for example twitter feminists and wide variety of contemporary sexual-abominations. That's about that if you're thinking about career in public politics or scientific study or whatever.
The academic argued the modern right, is the rebellion what current youth as well as big part of society in general seems to need. Reckless middle finger lifted hight, revolt against wide variety of dogmatic rules. Demands of swift response to social problems they deal in their daily lives, while left presents same situation as if it was page cut out of Watchtower magazine. Instead of approving even relevant criticism, they'd act with ways of perhaps authoritarian, but most of all with utmost
moralism. Something that was abomination for old left. Contemporary left embraces moralism. That's the biggest change.
I may question is it really "right wing" we're talking about here? Or rather more of semi-nihilists & angry liberals? Of course spectrum of types of people is so huge with conflicting ideas, that it seems quite dull to talk about "left" and "right".
Several anarchists have concluded that what should be division is not left/right, but authoritarian and non-authoritarian.
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on October 29, 2018, 08:13:44 AM
In Metal, I haven't heard of any such band. Punkwise, Conflict comes to mind immediately. If Black Metal could produce a band like Conflict I'd listen but I doubt very much that would happen. BM's politics, like it or not, usually lean to the right, just as punk usually leans to the left.
BM is at it's best when it is nihilist and anti-humanist in general. Just pure hate and resignation. Not fitting into any political agenda, despite every effort from all sorts of people to fit BM into their agendas, "fighting for a better scene".
To me, division of metal and punk is not so much of left and right, but rather horizontal and vertical. The other is about expansion on one flat level, trying to avoid hierarchies, preferably ripping down anyone going up, where less abled can't follow. Equality über alles, so to say. Other aims higher. Elitist, noble and even arrogant. Acceptance and even glorification of hierarchies - most definitely.
Some years back I visited one Helsinki punk record store, asking for few foreign bands. Guy told me they don't have those. They stock single copy once in a while and basically nobody is interested. This is what most guys associated with punk have told. People go to visit what locally happens (although not necessary watch the bands), and buy random mediocre release of band they know. It's not like they'd be interested in hunting the best and most inspiring hc-punk band out there. While Black Metal crowd, they will gladly skip gig of mediocre band, they will hunt for inspiring release of band who proves itself good. It may be about worshipping the known icons, or it may be esoteric - small and unknown to masses yet personally crucial.
Of course this is broad generalization. Nevertheless, one could observe such traits within "experimental scene" as well. If two easy examples would be for example group in type of "lets jam some racket, anyone can join, lets give some cdr's to friends" vs "I'd want to create monolithic album that survives decades, stands tall in front of this swamp of useless waste of time". You may not find blatant left/right, but you could will find certain state of mind and worldview which tends to manifest itself in the way things are done.
That said, cross-over exists. Often one can see strength of both approaches are don't feel necessity to go just one way. In generalization most should see good observations, and if someone would hate the generalization, his leaning is pretty much clear, hah...
