Mental Illness Representation in PE/Noise

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I would see Markkula's comments less as medical comment, and rather... hmm.. "underground comment". hah. When you look at the history of underground cultures, it's very often been rebellious, frustrated, FTW, No Future!, morally questionable behavior, and so on. All in all, something that indicates not fitting in to system, but some sort of resistance. It is just that I do not think "good mental health" standard, is that psychotic delusional reality that society often offers.
Therefore I see Markkula blurting out "mental health problem" more as indication that people tend to deviate from supposedly virtuous qualities presented in mainstream society.

[Commander15]

I would see Markkula's comments less as medical comment, and rather... hmm.. "underground comment". hah. When you look at the history of underground cultures, it's very often been rebellious, frustrated, FTW, No Future!, morally questionable behavior, and so on. All in all, something that indicates not fitting in to system, but some sort of resistance. It is just that I do not think "good mental health" standard, is that psychotic delusional reality that society often offers.
Therefore I see Markkula blurting out "mental health problem" more as indication that people tend to deviate from supposedly virtuous qualities presented in mainstream society.

I tend to think that this is the "proper" interpretation of Pasi's statement. There are lots of anti-systemic currents, customs, way of thought and sentiments present in noise / PE / industrial that could be seen as unproductive, futile, crazy, mentally ill and even "dangerous" by society's and fully socialized people's standards.

[Atrophist]

Yes, of course. And I seem to recall Markkula himself elaborating on his answer, more or less to that effect. Too bad it seems to not be available online any longer.

[brutalist_tapes]

I would see Markkula's comments less as medical comment, and rather... hmm.. "underground comment". hah. When you look at the history of underground cultures, it's very often been rebellious, frustrated, FTW, No Future!, morally questionable behavior, and so on. All in all, something that indicates not fitting in to system, but some sort of resistance. It is just that I do not think "good mental health" standard, is that psychotic delusional reality that society often offers.
Therefore I see Markkula blurting out "mental health problem" more as indication that people tend to deviate from supposedly virtuous qualities presented in mainstream society.

this is the way

[brutalist_tapes]

Yes, of course. And I seem to recall Markkula himself elaborating on his answer, more or less to that effect. Too bad it seems to not be available online any longer.

this not being online anymore, for example, just shows to me that we need to keep on pissing on this fucked society. i actually trust that the real fuck you attitude will never die, but never the less, it should be kept alive

[SIEGSIEGSIEG]

Yes, of course. And I seem to recall Markkula himself elaborating on his answer, more or less to that effect. Too bad it seems to not be available online any longer.

https://areena.yle.fi/podcastit/1-3711476

edit: Ah it wasn't about this then? But here's a reminder for the finnish speaking folks if someone hasn't listened to it hehe.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I suppose talk was about video with english subtitles that got removed when account of uploader got deleted?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

In recent news quite interesting research:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sjop.13018

Intent was to study Construction and validation of a scale for assessing critical social justice attitudes, so in short media says "wokeness" of people.

Done in university of Turku, Finland. There is a lot of data in research, but the interesting points include for example that study that questions the differences of female and male, there is significant difference between them found in the data. Another amusing point being that critical social justice attitudes are in correlation with depression and anxiety. And that same level of correlation exists with leftism.

I doubt they can establish any hard data about cause & effect. One could assume that in world like this, of course you are bound to be growingly depressed. Yet world does appear to be going down to drain also from "right wing perspective", yet depression and anxiety doesn't seem to effect in same way?

It would be also curious to see how in underground, the depression or anxiety appears to have different shapes, not only in artistic expression, but within the "scenes".

[tiny_tove]

In recent news quite interesting research:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sjop.13018

Intent was to study Construction and validation of a scale for assessing critical social justice attitudes, so in short media says "wokeness" of people.

Done in university of Turku, Finland. There is a lot of data in research, but the interesting points include for example that study that questions the differences of female and male, there is significant difference between them found in the data. Another amusing point being that critical social justice attitudes are in correlation with depression and anxiety. And that same level of correlation exists with leftism.

I doubt they can establish any hard data about cause & effect. One could assume that in world like this, of course you are bound to be growingly depressed. Yet world does appear to be going down to drain also from "right wing perspective", yet depression and anxiety doesn't seem to effect in same way?

It would be also curious to see how in underground, the depression or anxiety appears to have different shapes, not only in artistic expression, but within the "scenes".

very interesting.
some scenes are ideologically depressed: goth, emo, etc. It's part of the label
other scenes drag many depressed people. words and words have been written about the cathartic use of violent sounds to battle that, feel alive, etc. Most my friends in subcultures had that and felt that, as well as using scenes to replace disfunctional / absent families - and leaving them once the same patterns were repeated in such scenes or perceived as such by the person. will check this study, really up my alley.