Extreme of the Extreme?

[AMRadioWaveMessage]

The most challenging Noise, or Noise combination genre imaginable, what are others' perceptions of the harshest of the harsh?

Recently, for me, it's been Intolitarian (AntiChrist Kramer, from Deathkey's newer project), and a bit of Tetragrammacide. This is the most intense music I can think of, having heard, other than certain sounds of nature, and things like that.

I'd define Extemeness as difficulty in enjoying, or finding some redeemable aspects in it, because it is too hard to follow it, and decide o the and try to predict the structure, and thus, having amygdala of human brain go wild.

On the other hand, Intolitarian's appeal is not necessarily the music entirely, but the narratives he espouses before every track.

Basically, I'm looking for music that tops that level of discomfort. What truly extreme material are you guys familiar with, if you are willing to share?

[F_c_O]

ive found that after the initial shock lessens, even that which seemed too much to be enjoyed, becomes enjoyable. aquired taste. nowadays theres really little that i would say is too extreme within sphere of noise, at least sonically, for me to enjoy on some level or at least understand the appeal. now, if you want something that i have really hard time enjoying on any level, go to youtube and write tsunami on it. now thats painful.

[Johann]

I agree with FCO, when your new into something you can sometimes get that experience. I remember listening to golden shower on Prurients Black Vase in my buddy's car in high school and thinking, this is the harshest thing ever only to find out later it wasn't highly original and my non appetite was because I didn't feel like it offerd a lot i haven't revisted that album in an extremely long time, but I imagine it did not stand the test of time (however, if someone disagrees tell me and ill give it another go). I think the next thing I got was the Rita Lapdancer split cs and when dilloway told me it was vaccum cleaner noise it pretty much summed it up when I popped it in my deck haha, but again, terribly interesting? Not to me...some of sams other stuff is better but I'm not so into walls (if I had to listen to any tho, they'd be the Rita and I'd still love to see him live.

But as you get further in you hear more and you start looking for more. I don't know how much stuff you've explored but early Whitehouse and Con-Dom has some tasty ear torture, same with Pittsburgh PA by Macronympha, Bizzare Uproar is pretty intense, and Jaakko Vanhalas stuff is great harsh noise. maybe check out the sissy spacek harm albums (that's mor harsh in terms of just pure Walkman recordings, super grainy high end), a lot of noisecore stuff is kind of like that too.

Ahlzagailzehguh is highly regarded, I haven't listened to a lot but I hear that this cd rewards multiple listening experience (which in my opinion all good music does). It's something I'd like to check out but just haven't gotten around to it. Anyone else have any opinions on this disc?

https://www.discogs.com/Ahlzagailzehguh-Memory-And-Hearing/master/383643

Good luck finding what your after but honestly, no sounds are going to live up to what your looking for in your head ( I think that's what leads so many people to dip their feet into trying to create it). Just enjoy the search

[Andrew McIntosh]

I can't even remember the name of the project, but I used to have downloads of a more experimental type of noise that was, due to the intense frequencies used, nearly unlistenable. Short pieces of repeated loops of sounds that had just enough intensity in the frequencies to have a physical impact on the ears. I just called it "anoising". Interesting enough it itself, wish I still had it for interest's sake perhaps, but if there are certain sounds I just can't listen to I'm not going to make a masochist of myself. I don't enter competitions.

Recently a friend of mine wrote that he couldn't listen to the entirety of a piece of mine because he found the frequencies too painful. Interesting because that was not my intention.

As for subject matter, I'm pretty much cool with most things because I refuse to take a lot of bullshit seriously. I used to find Nicole 12 difficult because I hate child abuse but more recently I've found I can just listen to some tracks without getting upset. I don't care what the intentions of the "artist" is, I only care about whether I like the thing or not. As far as I'm concerned the "message" can get fucked.

But I'm all for shock value because I think it does work, at least in a broader public sense and not so much restricted within the scene. Despite a lot of talk from others who aren't usually into Noise/PE/etc. being above it all or finding it boring, it does bring about a reaction. If you where playing a live gig, for example, and you had a big Nazi swastika on the stage with you, people would not ignore it. They'd be obliged to react, even if it's with overly contrived yawns of "oh please", or nervous giggles, or something like that. As well as do-gooders who would feel obliged to be outraged. Not to mention those people who would genuinely be outraged, and those genuinely turned on.

But no one would just accept it and not comment. It wouldn't be just accepted. Things like that do work, at least on a public level. Within the scene itself I suppose it does get accepted as business as usual, but that's okay too, it's accepted as part of the fun. As a whole, shock value is part of the entertainment and I for one accept it.

[oOoOoOo]

I dunno, it's sort of a bizarre question. I like what the last person above me said about heavy music being an acquired taste. I think that in terms of how "extreme" a band is, it could be a lot of different factors. For one, I think in terms of bands that are just being the flat out craziest, I would look at bands like yaocapse and charles bronson, who are just crazy noisy powerviolence. I find that sort of shit hard to enjoy, because there's very little to appreciate about it, it's just very repetitive and mind numbing, not really seeking to enlighten or anything like some repetitious bands can do to induce a sort of trance.

Beyond sound, I guess there could also be a question of how extreme a band is with their ideology. If you look at the early black metal scene, it was rife with a lot of killing and what not. If you look at noise, the people in the scene are pretty into bdsm and death and stuff like that. I guess you could say that makes them "extreme", I dunno. Would the most extreme band in the world be a bunch of warlords, who go around with ak47s, with jacked up muscles, playing blasphemy worshipping black metal? That's how I imagine the most extreme band in the world would be, I guess.

Also, I don't like the concept of "shock value". I think it totally negates the purpose and goal of the music. If someone is shocked by the music they're listening to, it's because they're very new to the music and they haven't yet gotten over the difficult to digest parts of the music. In my opinion, it would be difficult to really gain a deeper understanding of life without looking at life's most difficult and taboo subjects. I've always looked at heavy music as a music for people who are more philosophically inclined who want to gain a deeper existential understanding.

Also to add to my post (I deleted it since), the most extreme bands are probably bands like Bizarre Uproar, Macronympha, or The Rita. I can't really recommend listening to them though, because they're good ways to damage your ears. If you want good extreme stuff, try white suns, pharmakon, assuck, dystopia, whitehouse, atrax morgue, Rectal Hygienics, Brainbombs, early Swans, maybe death metal like Morpheus Descends, Demilich, Ripping Corpse. There's a whole shit load of extreme shit man, it's not just fast stuff either. It's all about what makes you feel the most. Hell, slow stuff like disembowelment, khanate, thorr's hammer, or even slowcore like Red House Painters can give you a deep existential feeling.

[AMRadioWaveMessage]

I am familiar with most of the material mentioned, and I appreciate suggestions, especially since it can be hard to be acquainted with all the genres (genres) have to offer, since there is so much material that exists.

I don't find it a bizarre question, however, because like was even stated, this sound is for those who appreciate the taboo and ugly truths of life, and it's why we got into it to begin with. Music and ideology go hand in hand often, and extreme intensity of sound seems disingenuous with a 'tame' message. I love immersing myself into the genre, and still get pleasure discovering very obscure sounds and experiments.

There will always be envelope-pushers, and also and especially in Noise. I tend to listen to a lot of AM radio static these days, with cheap head phones, and enjoy walking near certain electromagnetic radiation hot-spots to create impromptu sounds. Ultimately, my love of sound has forced me to create material, because you cannot rely on others to appeal to sounds tastes, and like someone stated, even own material will come out differently from planned. And, that's the point. Noise is better when it is less planned.

I think we all want experience a new ground of harshness, because there is always progression, and things in the past, almost seem lame when something to top it comes out. We wouldn't be listening to the genre as makers, and fans, if we did not appreciate a newer sound to come about to 'trump' it. It's why makers constantly create new material, to touch on maybe unexplored path before not recognized or seen.

Lastly, if you like 'extreme' sounds, then suddenly, it no longer sounds as extreme as initial listening. So, it is obvious approach to search for something to appease tastes, or make it.

[Scat-O-Logy]

There are extreme sounds and extreme themes but I think the effect is much greater when you have "deeper knowledge" of what it's all about. Like Xenophobic Ejaculation mixing in samples from Brown On Ebony, Jamie Gillis scat flick where he shits on a nigger while rambling like maniac "fucking dogshit, dogshit nigga, say "dogshit", nigga dogshit, piece of nigga dogshit"

Disgusting Sanctum mixing in a emergency call where someone is taking her last breath of life.

Some older works of Taint with faggot porn samples. And later works for obvious reasons, hehe...

N12 in case you didn't understand what the aims of the project were... or even if you did.

Pasi getting showered with shit and piss or being spanked in some BU recordings. "Puudeli on siellä pissassa" or dominatrix screaming "Halleluja, halleluja, halleluja kiitos Jeesus!" while spanking dat bottom. Ultimate blasphemy.

Just to name of few. Not that I really care what's extreme but I'd imagine these should fit the criteria.

[urall]

IMO, as soon as you are someone who enjoys extreme harsh music (noise, metal, etc.) it's difficult to find something too extreme.
Then indeed becomes a matter of ideology behind the music, or maybe just certain frequencies which may bother you.

[Andrew McIntosh]

There's also perhaps the question of "extreme" in other directions than harshness and offensiveness. Extreme quiet sound, perhaps. Extreme strange. Extreme minimal. And so on. Not so much the point of this thread, perhaps, but other ways of looking at "extreme".

[Johann]

I was thinking, he could try listening to stuff like Prick Decay...probably a confusing listening experience for many. I think they probably made a lot of people uncomfortable/annoyed hah. I'm sure certain Gerogerigegege records are an extreme turnoff to some.

I also disagree with the poster that said extremes in sound without extreme ideology is disingenuous, i can think of a great many bands that don't have or need an extreme ideology that are far more entertaining than almost any others. Incapacitants is my case in point.

Also @ oooo: where you said your bit about macro, bu, Rita were you saying they are likely to damage your ears and that's why you don't recommend them? Or there're more enjoyable ways to damage your ears?at which I strongly suggest further macro exploration because there is some solid heavy and fun shit out there that you may have just not found yet.

Regarding shock message, it never moves me. It doesn't deter me from buying oldest releases by whitehouse (who are more funny than shocking), MO and other classics. But it doesn't motivate me to buy a BU or XE release, it might even turn me off a little. I much more prefer grit that's open to interpretation than full on in your face my cards are down type. But everyone has their own fix.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Claiming shock value is a common tool for certain people to try and discredit things they are offended by.

[Ashmonger]

First thing that comes to mind concerning uneasy listening is Beltbuckle Discipline by Scatmother. Especially the samples.

[Scat-O-Logy]

Beltbuckle Discipline by Scatmother.

I was thinking this too. Great album!

[AMRadioWaveMessage]

Extreme and entertaining are two different things. The idea is for the music to be uncomfortable at first, and then acquire a taste for it, to where future listens can be more entertaining. If someone finds favoritism with certain arrangement of low and high frequencies or like manner, and searches for future projects with a resemblance of sound, then they have found their box; their area, and therefore aren't looking for anything more challenging than their comfort zone. The reason I got into this music, and like I'd imagine for many others, it to get out of comfort zone. Also, if you use extreme music without extreme ideology, are you saying that if you did incorporate extreme ideology, then finished result as a whole wouldn't be more extreme?

Some of my most frequented Noise have been Mikko Aspa's projects, Deathkey/Intolitarian, Bizarre Uproar, Whitehouse, Ramleh, Prurient, Taint, etc. Yes, we can look 'Extreme' as extremely quiet, but the definition I used, is one that makes you out of your comfort zone. For some people, extremely quiet music can do that. In that case, it sees all interpretations of extreme (even though it seems there are universal themes, e.g. racism, child abuse, inaudible frequencies, which is more or less, what I'm focusing on. I'd reckon the more debased and 'unhuman' something can be looked at, defines its extremeness universally. What would be unhuman is something that doesn't remind of human events, either be it, frequencies so far removed from human vocal cord frequencies, and also message that is extremely antisocial, to the point where other antisocial messages seem tame, i.e. Rock music like Rolling Stones was once extreme, and is now tame and an acceptable form of human behavior in those lyrics.) can be valid., but only if it alienates and isolates someone from human existence, which quiet music easily could do, hence some more subtle and ambient frequencies in Delta range, or something. So, I'd imagine extreme quiet, and strange, and offensive, and harsh, generally all lead to same place, of extremely alienating, or in this case, just extreme.

What would be quiet, minimal, or harsh, or loud, and how which one leads to more alienating experience depends on listener's viewpoint of world and life experiences and preferences, but all ultimately meet at same, or so it seems, and the process of discovering objectively which goes the furthest (outside of humanness, i.e. more extreme) is what this very unplanned style of music is about.

Again, great suggestions. If anyone feels to challenge my claims, feel free to, or not. It's lead to an interesting discussion thus far, nonetheless, and I hope I did a good job at explaining the foundation of my post.

Lastly, if Rolling Stones was once most extreme, and now is looked at as tame music, why couldn't the same happen to Grunt or Intolitarian someday? It only seems like that it would be inevitable. If someone desires to create shocking music, does it necessarily mean they are personally offend by material they are 'against,' or they just exploring new concepts/themes/ideologies? If I make Anti-Christian song, am I personally offended by a sidewalk preacher?

[THE RITA HN]

I also disagree with the poster that said extremes in sound without extreme ideology is disingenuous, i can think of a great many bands that don't have or need an extreme ideology that are far more entertaining than almost any others. Incapacitants is my case in point.

plus, I heard this set destroyed many people mentally and physically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK5jZQ448ZY