Industrial music vs. real life

[HongKongGoolagong]

Not quite as bad a HongKongGoolamong though who's just a condescending prick. Maybe I'm wrong.

Cheers for that Martin, I saw Shift once and thought you were great and have releases on your label given to me by the artistes - some of whom have questions about your own character, ha!

[Duncan]

I never said anything about industrial as a beacon of free thinking and individualism. I merely pointed out that industrial for its inherent traits is on a natural collision course with the left as it is today. The repressive dominant left that holds the media, academia and culture in a vice.

Theotherjohn strikes me as a typical once UK industrial fan. A bit jaded, decidedly left wing and now considers it all a bit beneath him. Not quite as bad a HongKongGoolamong though who's just a condescending prick. Maybe I'm wrong.

Not that it matters that much. I have what I have, I like what I like and more pressing I have a studio to build. Quarrel on gentlemen!

Can't argue with any part of that first paragraph, fair enough and well put.

As for the definition of a typical jaded industrial fan, well, I get that...but do his left wing politics fit in with the left as it is today, as you said?  Does John strike you as the kind of person that will cover his eyes and ears when confronted with something that doesn't fit with his own views?  Seems to me he has very much engaged with the debate here.  And, speaking only from my own experience now, I'd like to think there is a bit of a difference between thinking something is beneath you to having perhaps just run out of interest in something which seems to repeat itself quite a bit? 

I dunno...beyond all this it comes down to listening.  I enjoy a good fat chew about what it all means and will admit to my share of sarcastic smart arsery (which, for the little it's worth is by no means reserved only for industrial music and its more devout, involved fans) but at the end of it all I enjoy playing a hell of a lot of 'this music' for what it does to my ears and gut and tend not to think much else about it when doing so.  I should imagine it's the same for John.

Beyond all else though, I'd love to hear your definition of a CURRENT industrial fan, UK or otherwise!

Hope that studio build is swift and fruitful.

[holy ghost]

To me whats interesting is if you replaced "industrial" with "black metal" the discussion would look strikingly similar if not identical. That's 2016 though, both seem to be increasingly polarized by people applying their definitions of what is and what isn't to the greater whole. And most likely thats the reason there are so many "disenfranchised detractors" as people just aren't finding what they're looking for. It's no longer possible to live in a micro-bubble thanks to bandcamp, forums, facebook and the realities of what the "scene" consists of are increasingly visible.

[Yrjö-Koskinen]

One observation: if we limit the discussion of "the Left" to anti fascists of the type that commonly hold opinions on Industrial music(ians), that type of person has always boggled my mind. I get that one could be opposed to major political and social trends, being against "the power" and all that. I don't get why one would bother with the opinions or political art of an extremely obscure scene - musical or otherwise. If I see some stalinist communist sect (they do still exist) distributing pamphlets, I find it funny and a bit interesting. I might talk to them, ignore them or at worst tell them to go fuck themselves. On no account would I register a blog to detail the lives of the individual members, or start some retarded social club to "fight stalinism". If this wasn't even a political organization, but some band whose members possibly helt communist, or any other absurd, views, I can't really think under what circumstances and in what name I would feel the need to prevent them from playing for their marginalized and politically irrelevant audience.

It is a disgusting mindset, completely alien to me, and I'm not a particularly liberal guy. The dominance of values I find to be shit - that can make me angry. The existence of small, peculiar groups of people with opinions I don't share cannot. I think you have to be a somewhat disturbed person with actual potential for totalitarian sadism to even feel the need to "fight" or destroy such groups.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

HG: One MAJOR difference between BM and industrial is that BM was usurped by hipsters and trendies - even that abomination of a human being Thurston Moore got his hooks in to the genre for a while - who made it cool and safe enough for them and their asshole friends to pretend to be into. Among many great and serious bands and projects sprung up hipster frivolities ready to piss in the well. Industrial, thank fuck, remains uncool and (hopefully) too uncomfortable for that lot. Not that that couldn't change of course. Fingers crossed it doesn't because I'd have to go out and hunt them down with the Finnyxan.

Duncan, caveat for "I could be wrong". Left wing tends to follow as a natural attribute. Not that it makes a person inherently evil, not always, but it often follows the smuggard who knows better than thou. It feels a bit odd to discuss someone (I think) I've never even met and making assumptions as to who he is but I started it so let's say I doubt it's a covering of ears and eyes and a more "yawn, saw this 25 years ago and it was better, but live and let live". Like I said, better than HongMong who I maintain is just a cunt with an opinion to peddle because that's all his sad life has amounted to. He embodies a UK kind who are legion and all are wankers.

I'd like to imagine a current industrial fan as one who doesn't listen to the condescending opinions of older generations telling them how everything was better in the old days. I'd like to picture them as clean slates with an appetite to explore the current and the previous on equal terms without the snobbery I've encountered from many jaded old (old of body but more so of mind) UK person. Do they exist? I think seeds have been sown and some new weeds have shot up. That's my impression from the third edition of UFoI anyway. I hope to build on that.

Thank you. The studio is slow and painstaking but even at snails pace it'll get there. It'll make a good extension to my industrial lifestyle out here in the sticks.

[HongKongGoolagong]

Nobody in this thread has stepped away from the personal and actually considered the effects the subculture of industrial has had on the real world.

I am old enough to remember how Depeche Mode suddenly had metal bashing mixed in to the background of their '80s chart hits and S&M themed lyrics like the great Master And Servant after Martin Gore had a good night out at some SPK gig in 1983.

In the '90s, Marilyn Manson took a hell of a lot from Pink Floyd's The Wall and from Bowie, but the sick genius that is Antichrist Superstar wouldn't have been the same without the Throbbing Gristle influence. Right down to that Oswald Mosley logo.

Likewise the often brilliant Rammstein who took so much from the equally camp Laibach. What a bunch of perverts, love 'em.

In more recent years, the deliberately 'offensive' videos for female mainstream artistes like Ke$ha and Nicki Minaj have been deeply rooted in the most shocking aspects of industrial culture - admittedly it has been the older male video directors aware of the history who've introduced this but the gals don't exactly seem to be opposed to this schtick.

Personally? I don't honestly know if being an obsessive TG and Whitehouse fan has made me any different from how I may have turned out as a human being. They turned me on to some good books, that I can say.

[Andrew McIntosh]

The original question was "I don't mean mainstream, only the micro world in which we are living". Nothing to do with Kesha or Minaj. Might just as well talk about Zola Jesus (click for link).

As for politics, fuck politics. As for drugs, they're alright, some of them. As for the real world, fuck the real world.

[tiny_tove]

I will speak at personal level.
Industrial culture somehow accompanied me on a path I already started of building my own life according to my own rules, without peer pressures present in other subcultures I am/have been interested in. There are strong energies flowing from different "scenes", but the non-judgmental/morbidly curious approach of (several) post industrialists who did projects, wrote zines, etc. fitted my attitude and interests from the very beginning.

Once passed the fascination for the often cheap shock value, the complete devotion to getting deeper in certain specific subjects without the moralist/pc overtones led me to rejoice instinctual interests without having to subscribe to a church/party/ideology as many other subcultures.

Scene is a wrong term in such a fluid environment where everything and the contrary of everything often coexist under the same roof, without turning into a tree-hugger, hippie-loving pussy, yet there are people I relate to more often than others and I feel strong alliance, affection, respect, friendship and admiration. I work mostly with them, with some of these I share personal experiences, etc. Does this make us a "scene", maybe but without the jealousy involved in other environments where whenever you piss 5 cm out of the same bucket you are seen like a traitor, etc.

PC is my main hate-pet at the moment, and I want it to see murdered in an form.

I could write for hours regarding the personal experiences. Thanks to industrial I discovered many great projects, movies, books, interests, I got engaged, I got friends, but there have been some flaws as wells. Rip offs, backstabber, some legal issues, unwanted avoidable physical confrontations with PC cunts in several occasions, some gigs banned, but I guess that is part of the fun.

No drugs for me, they are the economical backbone of people I tend to often complain about in my work and are often sold on the streets by morons. Personally, I love to be always in control and I like to be blamed of every mischief I am responsible for, not contributing to be a burden to the health/social system I pay taxes for eheh

[tiny_tove]

Original opening question was how industrial changed our reality, art, culture and people. It could be also thought that perhaps question was needed to be simple enough without any need to remind that industrial isn't merely something that is given, but one often actively shapes it by involvement. It's been said by several people, how dull it is that industrial people look the same, listen the same, read same books, watch same movies, are interested in same fringe cultures, etc. I don't think it is actually true, but looked from distance - that's what it looks like.

totally agree on this

[kettu]

Has industrial music influenced me to work for free in an old Cable layer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_layer) or would I be there regardless.
I think it must have nudged me in that direction. Working and moving around in an enviroment that I find aesthetically enjoyable is a no brainer.

Couple of years ago I decided there is good money to be made in steel, its all intersting stuff and I have given Fe offerings that pleases it. I have a few weeks of freelabour I have to perform but after that its time to make bread with a subject matter that has at times been practically a fetish.( I have not wanked with rebar cockrings but a ton of mental energy has been dedicated to the matter)




I cut a hole for a door and made a railing boom, stickwelding and plascmacutting. tons of fun


heavy ambience of the engineroom

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

As for politics, fuck politics. As for drugs, they're alright, some of them. As for the real world, fuck the real world.

It (or something like that) could be used as nice motto for my t-shirt (and not only for that) :)

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Not quite as bad a HongKongGoolamong though who's just a condescending prick. Maybe I'm wrong.

Cheers for that Martin, I saw Shift once and thought you were great and have releases on your label given to me by the artistes - some of whom have questions about your own character, ha!

You're welcome. I'm a terrible person but still of better character than the person who gave you a few of my releases. Providing it is who I think it is.

Depeche Mode had an interesting period from Construction Time Again to Black Celebration. I believe they chose Gareth Jones as producer for his work with Neubauten and production wise it's still a fascinating listen. A chart topping pop band who spent much time and money experimenting in top of the range studios.  

[burdizzo]

Exactly. Loved 'em as a 'chap'/ young teenager, but quickly became bored of 'em after Music For the Masses, and started to delve deeper into experimental synth and, from there, noise.
It has been mentioned on this thread how 'industrial' and industrial fans are in conflict w/ the left. I would certainly feel that way myself, but I suspect it may be simply a contrarian stance, as has also been implied. However, the majority of 'industrial' fans I know seem to be liberal left types - certainly here in Ireland (where the 'scene' is quite miniscule). A lot of them are coming from the goth scene, and then there's also a small clique of 'anti-fa' harsh noise types.
As for industrial vs. real life - well, personally, it's only one facet of my life, and I have other interests. Nevertheless, it has naturally led me to at least consider some associated areas - most of which I would reject quickly enough. I do have an interest in generally rightist thought, but none in sex-magick, drug experimentation, or multiple piercings. But perhaps all that is a sign that I'm just getting on a bit!!

[Bloated Slutbag]

Decided in advance that I will absolutely not remove whatever words are to the follow. Never go back and read your own spew. Never.

I tried and failed a few times to submit some thoughts on the subject, and duly removed the more poorly considered. First, a reiteration of the previously stated: it's hard to say how the culture (and sounds) have impacted me as I essentially grew up on the shit. In the shit. So where to separate what aspect of what identity? This follows through to the present and to the future. I will concede that these thoughts are informed by a crushingly myopic ability to read a given "real world" situation. I look back at any number of things that have occurred in my life and I would shudder- if I could correctly ascertain exactly what the fuck happened.

Second, we're talking about a field of endeavor whose culture implicitly and explicitly, sometimes didactically, rejects even itself, re-  "That is why we reject it." At various junctures, I have probably made very clear (if possibly counter-productive) decisions to separate myself from any sense of the culture, because to formally acknowledge that I am actively "participating" (in anything beyond a bunch of sounds) goes against some very critical aspects of the initial (and possibly enduring) attraction. The idea of there existing another person who might look, think or act like me is in many ways disturbing; the instant any (micro) culture threatens to foist such a person upon me I run like hell. Or to say, I (sometimes fantasize that I) want to participate in an idealized self-destructive mutually self-hating culture. Well, maybe. Giving my own idealizations and fantasies the benefit of the doubt, there are several ironies and contradictions in play, but save at this very moment of typing poorly considered shit onto a screen I'm hardly going to dwell on such matters. Would much rather waste my time trying to establish a set of doomed-to-fail criteria that might define how to systematically approach/evaluate/differentiate this shit strictly as a listener, re- something at some remove from "Sounds like Merzbow".

Merzbow is a good referent when reviewing GEWALTMONOPOL's I think very relevant words regarding legacy. With reference to Akita's mindboggling Merztribution... contribmerztion... contribumerz... by which the serious listener could spend a lifetime indulging in the first two decades alone, to the exclusion of all other soundperv-veyors on the planet... it is frankly laughable to bother to consider whether he is "resting on his laurels" or some such. Under such circumstances, how could the serious listener possibly give a fuck? "Hey guys, I heard that Shakespeare's unpublished works from his later years were utter toss!" Dethrone the Merz or shutteth thy hole. To qualify slightly: as a listener, I'm perfectly happy to ignore a very favored soundperv-veyor for years on end, coming back every once in a while, with only academic interest in the when or where, and possibly having my mind blown (or not). It is in fact a source of great pleasure to expose myself to a great artist in reverse chronology. In this sense I think I can understand very much where GEWALTMONOPOL and any other (apparently) forward-looking person is coming from. I've only lately started getting into the catalogs of some of the more recent crop of decidedly unrestful pe heroes, mostly in reverse chronology, and I am consistently impressed with the quality (in any chronology). Brave new waves are clearly being made. But for me, at the moment, several of them are moving in the opposite direction (for a given value of "opposite").

Muttering to himself: do not read it over. Submit. Now. You wanker!

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Jesus! All I did was say why I think Consumer Electronics is shit. I'm not ordering anyone not to like the poor baby. OK, I did call HongKongGoolagong a cunt but we've settled that somewhat amicably in private. 

And for the record, Unrest has no intention of overthrowing Shakespeare. Not even in the face of industrial dispute.