Effects of noise/music on tinnitus

[Thor]

Shouldn't p.e. feedback be extremely harmful to the ears and cause tinnitus? I've noticed that as soon as I hit play on some feedback dominated tapes such as SJ my ears start making additional feedback sounds which stay with me for a while (or maybe I just stop noticing for a while).
Any thoughts on this?

[theworldisawarfilm]

Shouldn't p.e. feedback be extremely harmful to the ears and cause tinnitus? I've noticed that as soon as I hit play on some feedback dominated tapes such as SJ my ears start making additional feedback sounds which stay with me for a while (or maybe I just stop noticing for a while).
Any thoughts on this?

Likely tinnitus. Pretty straightforward really. Quick look at Wikipedia will tell you all you need to know:

Tinnitus is the hearing of sound when no external sound is present.[1] While often described as a ringing, it may also sound like a clicking, hiss or roaring.[2] Rarely, unclear voices or music are heard.[3] The sound may be soft or loud, low pitched or high pitched and appear to be coming from one ear or both.[2] Most of the time, it comes on gradually.[3] In some people, the sound causes depression or anxiety and can interfere with concentration.[2]

Tinnitus is not a disease but a symptom that can result from a number of underlying causes.[2] One of the most common causes is noise-induced hearing loss.[2] Other causes include ear infections, disease of the heart or blood vessels, Ménière's disease, brain tumors, emotional stress, exposure to certain medications, a previous head injury, and earwax.[2][4] It is more common in those with depression.[3]

The diagnosis of tinnitus is usually based on the person's description.[3] A number of questionnaires exist that may help to assess how much tinnitus is interfering with a person's life.[3] The diagnosis is commonly supported by an audiogram and a neurological examination.[1][3] If certain problems are found, medical imaging, such as with MRI, may be performed.[3] Other tests are suitable when tinnitus occurs with the same rhythm as the heartbeat.[3] Rarely, the sound may be heard by someone else using a stethoscope, in which case it is known as objective tinnitus.[3] Spontaneous otoacoustic emissions, which are sounds produced normally by the inner ear, may also occasionally result in tinnitus.[6]

Prevention involves avoiding loud noise.[2] If there is an underlying cause, treating it may lead to improvements.[3] Otherwise, typically, management involves talk therapy.[5] Sound generators or hearing aids may help some.[2] As of 2013, there were no effective medications.[3] It is common, affecting about 10–15% of people.[5] Most, however, tolerate it well, and it is a significant problem in only 1–2% of people.[5] The word tinnitus is from the Latin tinnīre which means "to ring".[3]

If you are finding that your ears seem unusually 'sensitive' to certain frequencies, that would be called Hyperaccusis. I think one thing that people aren't aware of is the dB/SPL is a logarithmic scale and so not only does a 'safer' exposure time decrease as dB increases, but it decreases exponentially. By NIOSH/OSHA standards, above 120 dB, one second of exposture is considered 'safe' lol.
I'm due for a pretty thorough (up to 20 kHz) audiometric exam next month as a requirement of the program I am currently enrolled in studying sound, and I can't say that I am eager to get the results. Have suffered with tinnitus for a long time and am pretty positive it is accompanied by some HF loss, probably around 12-16 kHz. :(

[Thor]

What I mean is whether tinnitus is inevitable if you listen to this type of music a lot? 

[theworldisawarfilm]

What I mean is whether tinnitus is inevitable if you listen to this type of music a lot? 

Going to gigs without ear protection, recording/rehearsing/playing it yourself without similar protection or listening to it on an Mp3 player over headphones for longer periods and over years etc. etc. I would say 100% yes. I know few people, myself included, who still find it difficult to remember to bring earplugs to a gig.
Think of the tiny hairs inside (stereocilia) of your ear like a patch of grass. You could lay a heavy stone on the grass for a few hours, remove the stone and come back the next day to see that the grass has righted itself etc. But if you left the stone there for a week the grass underneath is probably going to die. Ears are resilient to a point, but once those little hairs die, they're not ever coming back. Tinnitus is a symptom of hearing damage, not really a condition on it's own.

[theworldisawarfilm]

Human ear is also most sensitive to frequency range of around 2-5 kHz. Go ahead and plug some frequencies in that range into a signal generator and tell me it doesn't remind you of an SJ tape. Yer fucked, bud. There is no hope.

[holy ghost]

25 years of playing in bands, going to shows and wearing headphones has fucked my ears and I definitely notice a ringing, but over the last 10 years I've been really responsible in wearing earplugs when playing music - I also feel like there's a certain amount of psychological response to it - I remember occasionally finding it would bother me to the point not being able to focus on other stuff, and more often than not (99% of the time) being able to tune it out - I remember reading on the Wikipedia page that people do cognitive behavioural therapy for tinnitus - which shows that if it's truly bothersome it can be minimalized.

I know that for example I was jamming with my noisecore band the other night and I was the only one wearing earplugs - and I know that at one point my headphones broke and I borrowed a really shitty pair from my wife and the ringing became exponentially worse. I dunno, it's hard to be objective about your own hearing....

[Cementimental]

What I mean is whether tinnitus is inevitable if you listen to this type of music a lot? 

It's inevitable if you listen to any live music at all a lot without hearing protection.

[Soloman Tump]

In a live environment it really depends on the sound system and how its set up.

Went to a gig once in Birmingham that had screaming high frequencies, left me fucked up for days and I had ear plugs in most of the night.

A well tuned club system (and knowledgeable sound guy) can still be loud and clear, leaving no undesirable effects.

[Zeno Marx]

A well tuned club system (and knowledgeable sound guy) can still be loud and clear, leaving no undesirable effects.

This is a great point of discussion.  I used to see a band with an infamous, and industry advancing, sound crew.  Their shows were so loud that you had to scream at the person next to you to have an exchange.  Nothing new or unusual.  That's live music.  Yet, when I walked out of the venue, I had no hearing fatigue or after-effects.  Granted, it was a type of music that lent to that ability to be stadium-concert-loud and also without  much distortion, but it was a lesson [to me] that high volume didn't necessarily have to mean the destruction of hearing.  And both the high fidelity and no dangerous distortion was awesome from a pure listening standpoint.  I wear earplugs all the time, even when working with power tools.  I always have a set on me.  I take zero chances.  I didn't have to wear earplugs with that band.

...I also feel like there's a certain amount of psychological response to it - I remember occasionally finding it would bother me to the point not being able to focus on other stuff, and more often than not (99% of the time) being able to tune it out - I remember reading on the Wikipedia page that people do cognitive behavioural therapy for tinnitus - which shows that if it's truly bothersome it can be minimalized.

This is also interesting.  At some point, it does necessarily follow that it becomes a psychological battle.  There's no other choice.  The physical is damaged.  The cognitive has to compensate.  I would imagine that to be a difficult thing.  Constant concentration and focus.  True labor.

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

...I also feel like there's a certain amount of psychological response to it - I remember occasionally finding it would bother me to the point not being able to focus on other stuff, and more often than not (99% of the time) being able to tune it out - I remember reading on the Wikipedia page that people do cognitive behavioural therapy for tinnitus - which shows that if it's truly bothersome it can be minimalized.

This is also interesting.  At some point, it does necessarily follow that it becomes a psychological battle.  There's no other choice.  The physical is damaged.  The cognitive has to compensate.  I would imagine that to be a difficult thing.  Constant concentration and focus.  True labor.
[/quote]

Just chiming in regarding something slightly off-topic but kind of related. I'm going deaf and recently got hearing aid, after needing it for years but not being able to afford it. I do have some ringing in my ears as well at times. Anyway, going deaf has been physically hard to bear for me because my job requires to talk with people 8 hours a day. Without hearing aid my brains worked harder to do simple things, concentrating so hard for so long gave me massive headaches, and social interaction with people got increasingly difficult because I just couldn't hear anything when more than 2 people talked at once, which led me to avoid social interaction in order to avoid a constant blur of unintelligible nothingness that amounted to nothing useful or pleasant to me. Now I feel much better.

[Zeno Marx]

Cognitive fatigue is no joke.  For instance, in general, the brains of people with dyslexia use 5Xs more energy when reading and doing tasks that involve the dyslexia.  It's not unusual for the dyslexic to need sleep after reading etc.  Other parts of their brain have compensated and picked up the slack, and that significant additional energy use literally exhausts them.  I would assume it is similar with the blind, deaf, etc.  Anytime the brain has to move work to another area, or areas, of the brain.  The brain is a machine and can demand a lot of energy to do its work.

[Kayandah]

I used to think my tinnitus was caused by heavy gig going without wearing earplugs, but recent tests have shown my hearing is very good for my age and the specialist thinks my tinnitus is genetic. she said there is no clinical evidence to prove this, but based on what she has seen over the years in clinical practice there have been enough cases for her to think there is a link.

My tinnitus got a lot worse last year to the point where it affects my health and I find I can't listen to noise music anymore. The white noise generators the hospital gave me don't help either. I have, however, found that field recordings help, so its a steady diet of Dave Philips and Francisco Lopez for the last few months.

[ConcreteMascara]

I used to think my tinnitus was caused by heavy gig going without wearing earplugs, but recent tests have shown my hearing is very good for my age and the specialist thinks my tinnitus is genetic. she said there is no clinical evidence to prove this, but based on what she has seen over the years in clinical practice there have been enough cases for her to think there is a link.

My tinnitus got a lot worse last year to the point where it affects my health and I find I can't listen to noise music anymore. The white noise generators the hospital gave me don't help either. I have, however, found that field recordings help, so its a steady diet of Dave Philips and Francisco Lopez for the last few months.

that's definitely in my "biggest fears" category. glad you found something that helps!

[luonnoton]

Mine is mild enough to not disturb me too much, but years of of exposure to loud, distorted music has of course given me some damage. I often have to ask people to speak up in conversation, especially with any background noise going on. It's a bit worse after exposure to loud sounds even with ear protection, so i just mask it with some spoken-word radio or podcast/audiobook at a soft volume. Some music with a more non-abrasive sound works too.

Will have to try some of the sound-based therapies some of you mentioned when i can be arsed to. The quirks of hearing cognition are a very interesting thing, should make for interesting experiments at least.

[Electro Surgeon]

That constant sound In your ear, reminds me some times of a sea shell that you'd put do to your ear as a kid.
Would be nice if it would go away like when you move the shell away.
It's funny if your busy you don't notice the ringing , some times I think I'm cured but only have to stop what I'm doing to notice the sea shell sound is still buzzing away.

Makes it hard being in a noise act especially when I'm in the studio with head phones on. You just want it full bore so you can pick up on all the shit going on.

Total pain in the ass and live shows like someone already said it's no fun wearing ear plugs when you play live.