Sharing MP3s of old out-of-print noise?

[tiny_tove]

used soulseek back in the days to get old unavailable stuff and deleting them as soon they were reissued... it was also good to get weird stuff that was impossible to find.

[Andrew McIntosh]

[so why in 2018 do people still insist on releasing stuff as a limited edition cassette.....

Because people are stupid. I thought everyone knew that.

[bitewerksMTB]

[so why in 2018 do people still insist on releasing stuff as a limited edition cassette.....

Because people are stupid. I thought everyone knew that.

Because a physical release is way more satisfying in every way possible than downloading a file.

[Duncan]

It's 2018 and an entire spectrum of format appreciation is well established with regards to noise.

Yet still we are afraid to discuss low run media editions for what they so often are: false economies & learned behaviour.

[bitewerksMTB]

Why would anyone "be afraid" to discuss low runs?

[PedestrianOrgans]

My Discogs wantlist just popped up a reissue of Macro's "Whorechestra" and the original tape back-to-back, $10 vs. €40 for from what I can tell, a couple BDSM photos in a J-card booklet and the pleasure of having an "original". There's definitely some sort of psychological thing going on with that.

[Soloman Tump]

From an artistic point of view, I would want my work yo be experienced by as many people as possible.

If a limited tape / vinyl / CD run satisfies the hardcore collectors then great. But I would want that backed up with paid downloads for anyone else. If the legal paid downloads are not available then the only other option is an illegal rip.

[FiEND]

i see no problem in sharing mp3/wave files of tapes that no one figured anyone would want back in the 80s. used soulseek and blogs to get streicher obscurities. IR does reissues making those low bitrate mp3 rip of years old bulk ferric tape absolutely obsolete. purchased CDs but ....

Life doesn't feel better

because there will always be the want to have the "true first" and own a little piece of history. the thrill of the hunt and so on.

[Zeno Marx]

I've created a monster
cuz nobody wants these cassettes anymore they want .wav files and nice rippers

Sarcasm?  I hope so.

Because a physical release is way more satisfying in every way possible than downloading a file.

A couple of people just in this thread are telling you that isn't true for them.  Thus, it's not something you can state universally.

Downloading is not all that dissimilar to buying.  Both are actions.  Neither are the end game (usually).  They're actions by way we arrive to an end:  listening.  I don't get excited about downloading.  I also no longer get excited about buying something.  Neither action gives me any sense of euphoria or satisfaction.  But I remain excited about listening.  That's where the satisfaction is for me.  The listening.  And then you can talk about learned behavior, trends, and all the social stuff involved in the process.  They're worth discussion.  But man, listening is THE shit.

EDIT:  and then we can talk about the listening and that process.  lossy vs lossless etc. Considering I feel it safe to assume we're all lovers of sound and music here, how much sense does it make that we put more thought, effort, and emotion into downloading vs physical artifact than we do the quality of playback?  Just as an example, if you could buy a cassette of average 2018 quality in standard-type packaging or 24bit lossless files of the same material direct from the artists's master files (or otherwise), why would you downplay the files?

[bitewerksMTB]

I wasn't stating anything "universally". I was speaking for myself & you would have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

[Zeno Marx]

I wasn't stating anything "universally". I was speaking for myself & you would have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

Seems like your statement was a definitive one.  It sure read like that, but hey, I'm an idiot.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Low runs are more about economic reality in this scene. For one, most people don't have the money to put out unlimited hundreds of tapes. And for another, there just isn't the market for that many, especially in a scene like this. I think even artists who are the better known would only sell something like up to five hundred copies of any physical release. You need to be Whitehouse or Merzbow or maybe something like Genocide Organ to even start scratching the thousands and even then it'll be very low. We just don't have the numbers.

But there is an element of learned behaviour if by that I take it it's following a scene's fetishes and aesthetics. I don't doubt people genuinely enjoy the aesthetics of grubby looking photocopied tape covers or elaborate limited-edition arty packaged things, it's all very visual and tactile and so forth. A lot of it comes down to the collector's bug as well. People love having shelves of tapes and records and cds and books and things. You've got a visual statement of your tastes right there in front of you. It's like some kind of achievement, buying and owning all that stuff.

Which isn't even just restricted to physical formats, as I've got to admit there's a ton of information on my hard-drives that I just don't need and only seem to have because I could (I can't be the only person in the world with more Merzbow than I'll ever actually listen to). Fortunately deleting a file is a lot easier than trying to sell or give away an album or tape. That's another great thing about the convenience of digital files - don't like it, just delete it.

I have no idea what satisfaction there is to derive from a physical format any more. I've been through all that. For me it's the opposite - there's a lot more satisfaction having pure sound that I can easily and quickly download than go through all the ridiculous motions of getting some plastic thing in the mail that I have to pay a great deal more money for. Or not, as the case has been when plastic things I've paid a great deal more money for have just disappeared in the mail.

[Peterson]

I think the satisfaction of physical media is the hands-on visceral aspect like anything else. Good food and clothes that do the job as an adult, comics and shit you built as a kid, you know? Booze and/or drugs for some.  Blah blah, yadda yadda. Like anything else, gets to lose its edge with excessive indulgence (collecting and fanboyism in my personal experience) but in moderation and the right (personal) reasons/applications, making worthwhile and enhancing life experiences...like anything else.

With collections, I don't see it as a statement of taste since I don't even talk about my tastes with many friends with a handful of exceptions. A personal library of sound like a bookshelf is literally a private library. And it's not even really a  "real collection," being that with some glaring exceptions I'm willing to rotate the old holdouts out for new wants in terms of selling and trading. It's organic and changes with time, like the human brain. As with memories, you risk losing old ones in creating new ones. It's life, and I embrace it. To me, that's only materialistic in a very superficial sense. If I collected whole discographies of bands and entire label runs, that'd be something else entirely and neither my idea of what makes art/sound a worthwhile experience nor something I even want to have the time for.

I'm not a format snob but I admit holding out for the "real" thing is usually my way. Downloading, even paying for downloads, doesn't bother me, though it's not my preference. Like the contrast between grade-A spank material and actually fucking/getting fucked. There's an obvious choice but sometimes you go with the lesser.

And limited, small-run tapes in 2018? Because it's convenient, cost-effective, and realistic. I know damn well only a small handful of people give two shits for what I do, so I'm not going to put too much energy into "releasing" one thing when I've already started work in some way on the next. Sure, it'd be great if a bigger audience could justify a bigger investment in larger editions and some professionalism, but I'm not an idealist, I'm a pragmatist/realist.

[Bloated Slutbag]

That's another great thing about the convenience of digital files - don't like it, just delete it.

I have to admit there's something genuinely satisfying about deleting a piece of crap music, particularly in mid-listen. "This will be permanently removed... Are you sure?" Hell yeah I'm sure, sayonara motherfucker!

[PedestrianOrgans]

There's something about collecting physical records that is like absolutely nothing else. I'm sure this is what "car guys" feel working on their engine or something similar, it's just some insane addiction that you've determined to be worth sinking your spare money into. Because people want spare money to spend on their "thing" or their "stuff", and my stuff happens to be records/tapes/CDs whatever. "If it makes you happy", "whatever floats your boat", and all that whatnot.

But ON THE OTHER HAND, I've been trying to get my hands on Taint material and in the last day or so all the copies of "Vice" disappeared from Discogs. I'm pretty sure Keith is still around *ahem* and doesn't have a box of vinyls hanging around, so ya know...wat do