Laziness in noise

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Topic separated from elsewhere.
To separate it from original artist what sparked idea..

Laziness is an interesting topic in our corner of the musical macrocosm. The term holds an implication of purposeful carelessness, dubious intention or ignorance of artistic discrimination. I don't hear nor am I persuaded by any of that here. There is an undeniable overtone of alienated apathy; however, it comes across as genuine and effective in my opinion.

Laziness is certainly interesting topic in context of noise. When it's not something you do out of... duty or such. But out of some sort of satisfaction of creating works you want. However, it is not so rare occasion, when I feel there is element of laziness to be found. Even if it basically makes no sense.

If laziness is to be seen as disinclination to activity, even if you have the ability. One can start split hairs and call file it under apathy or more neat names. Indeed, there is vast amount of bleak industrial noise, with total lack of emotion and sonically works well when being everything else but joyful and.. enthusiastic material?

Yet, it seems sometimes rather cop out avoiding work needed to make things in interesting way. As example I have had releases cancelled on label, after I conclude artist that album is totally inferior to what it should be. That mastering is shitty, mixing is totally out of balance in wrong way.. many songs are so weak that he could do better any day - proven by the past works. What you get few excuses and "I known I should at least re-do the mastering...". But nothing is done. Case where you know it ain't good, but having album released is enough fullfilment, that it doesn't really matter if it wasn't that good doesn't seem to be totally unheard scenario. Instead of making good album, artist may be looking for guy who will put out the shitty version he won't bother to work with.

Now that gear seems cheap and easy to get, compared to old days, we seem to be in quite odd situation. Many know what you can do with things like MS-20, but when you hear what people often do with them... It is like hearing first oscillating soundwave and concluding "that's good enough". Recording it to computer with utterly flat sound. You can just wonder is they'd listen someone else doing that.

Of course outsiders can't necessary know what exactly is laziness, what is simply lack of talent and insight or what is simply other kind of vision how release should be. Being rough or simple isn't sign laziness. Neither sterile sound. It can be exact opposite. Result of hard work and endless tweaking to "get it right". Or simply getting it right instantly when that's what been looking for.


I have noticed some elements of laziness in my own works in certain years. Like abandoning more demanding methods for sake of gettings things done. Of course, it would be fine, if result would live up to your own expectation. It's not that many, but I have to honestly acknowledge that in past some choices were at least partly due some sort of laziness, when finishing material seemed more important and would settle for plugin delay in digital mix etc, even when knowing it is not as good as doing it in other ways. Or trying to survive with mediocre source sounds, fix it with efx etc, instead concluding necessity to get up and get proper source sounds.

Luckily this is not the dominating trait in my works, but something that has been there in few occasions and possible to learn from.
Same for graphic design... if one could go back to 90's when lure of easy computer design started, I'd have appreciated someone ask if those covers you did are something you think are actually good enough... Now it's something one has to live with as sign of those times, hah..

There are still things one must not make intentionally too diffucult, for sake of getting things done.

This applies to live noise. You know how you could create something great... yet end up with something less than that. Thinking how much effort it would be to get ideal setting build on location and it's nothing that can't be done, but realistically... you won't. Settling for things you can fit in suitcase or less. It is something I have been thinking for long time, which basically has resulted way less live gigs. Even when I'm satisfied with past gigs, unwillingness to be satisfied with "lazy ways" to do it is becoming obstacle.
When you see lazy shows, you know exactly that you don't want to be doing that on your own gigs...

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

There comes a time when what has been done before becomes if not stale then at least less interesting to revisit again. Not musically itself but the sheer mechanics of it. I've argued for a while that making music is maybe 5% pure inspiration during the initial stages and the rest is a painstaking completion process involving editing and mixing. It can wear down the spirits of even the most ardent individual.

Playing live is a different thing. The type of venues we get are what they are. Shitty sound systems, no stage, no time, no this no that. We accept that and make the best of it anyway but same as the first paragraph it can get a bit familiar after a while. Especially when a few years in with more experience and clearer ideas and knowing they can't be realised due to the circumstances we find ourselves in.

I've spent the last couple of years thinking about how the two can be made less of an "up against it" and a more rewarding and instant experience. The first I haven't come up with an answer, I guess it's a case of just fucking do it and stay on the grinding course until it's done. I'm reminded of Björn Borgs coach who responded to the young Borgs complaints about long and boring training sessions with a daily "get in the shit!".

As for live I've been forming ideas for future events completely under my control where there's no compromise timewise, soundwise or anywise.

[theworldisawarfilm]

There comes a time when what has been done before becomes if not stale then at least less interesting to revisit again. Not musically itself but the sheer mechanics of it. I've argued for a while that making music is maybe 5% pure inspiration during the initial stages and the rest is a painstaking completion process involving editing and mixing. It can wear down the spirits of even the most ardent individual.

Well said.


I think there is a lot to be said for the relationship between simplicity of form and 'effectiveness.' But, like anything else only a few I think really 'get it' in noise/electronics in general. Usually result of not being at all invested personally in what is being produced for fear of being taken as 'too self-serious' and/or a lack of dedication in attempting to build and hone a certain set of skills--even if it is as 'crude' a skillset as constructing chains of pedals.
Like Mikko has said, with the proliferation of the MS-20 reissue--most people have no clue as to the fundamentals of synthesis and seemingly little inclination to deeply learn or explore them. I am not saying one was to be pedantic or scholarly but I can't help but shit mercilessly on somebody who seems to be simply "hearing first oscillating soundwave and concluding "that's good enough". Recording it to computer with utterly flat sound."  Pretty much the same ubiquitous, misguided approach by undedicated losers across all styles of music, but I think especially in the realm of electronics at large is that the equipment somehow does all of the work. People see Genocide Organ on stage with MS-series and simply think "ah, that must be the secret ingredient!" go home with their new synthesizer and expect instant 'quality' results. I think often this discourages people from ever making it to the stage of releasing material or playing live beyond a couple of times, but just as often it does not. Definitely living in a time where so much 'instant gratification' and so many shortcuts are available, people lose taste for taking time and effort to create something more substantive.

I too am certainly guilty of not always taking the time to perfect things, pushing them out prematurely with poor mixes/ill-conceived structure/poor artwork etc but it has left such a sour taste in my mouth to "settle" enough times that I think I have cured a large part of my own laziness (I hope.)

[theworldisawarfilm]

If you have to excuse yourself for your work, you still need a lot to fail.

[edit]

Also I never get the hate against people that do it somehow 'wrong', but it's very funny to see it happening (and apparently always has) in lot of alternative music. Punk, hardcore, metal, noise, everybody need someone else to hate on. Not much different than the drama on TV. If I think your noise is lazy or uninspiring, I don't buy your second cassette or don't go to your show, that's it. Also, you make fucking noise, it's never going to be perfect. A perfect noise release is a failure.

I disagree with this pretty wholeheartedly. I don't know if this was in regard to my post specifically, but maybe I should clarify that by saying I can't help "mercilessly shitting" on people who fail to meet my standards I simply mean that I don't respect what they do and would not buy their material etc. etc. I certainly wouldn't waste my time telling them so to create "drama" or hurt their feelings or whatever. All I'm getting at is that certain people have a certain amount of dedication to what they do--others may not, and it often shows. I'm not going to feel bad about having high standards for something others might regard as *just* fucking noise/punk/whatever. I do not like to perpetuate what I see as a culture of coddling/back-patting within underground music. If somebody's work strikes me as being disingenuous or "lazy" it's not that they're doing it 'wrong' its that I am left feeling like they didn't *try*. I'm well aware that that these are just my opinions and it's nobody's choice but my own.
I also want to clarify that these criticisms are also not directed at 'beginners,' new acts or what have you (your language seems to imply these feelings); people/groups for whom I have great respect as artists routinely let me down. As somebody who is rooted mainly in DIY punk, I can say that in that realm it is often the more well-established/new *hot* acts who either stop trying and do disservice to their former works/gain recognition through *other* means rather than the merit of their art; while those "doing it wrong" are usually doing it the best.

[edited for childishness]

[theworldisawarfilm]

Yes, no roots in DIY, not involved in any scene whatsoever, I come from a different place. I can filter out the things I do not like, and not deal with it, that's and that's probably why we have a different perspective on things. I do get it on some level, some friend of mine does noise once in a blue moon but it's just this uninspiring mess and he's not putting much effort in, and doesn't care - and I fail to see why I should support him on that level.

I don't appreciate being (apparently) chided like an internet troll

Mind, my post wasn't directed at you, but a general rant about things I see happening a lot. Please don't take it personal.

I really am a little embarrassed by my post honestly. Caught me at a steamy moment!

[xdementia]

I think the most common manifestations of laziness in noise is proliferation. Many noise artists don't have a very good filter or ear for what is good material worth releasing and what is a "practice session".

I've witnessed this countless times live as well but it's mostly with the "free improv experimental" music scene where it is the worst.

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

There comes a time when what has been done before becomes if not stale then at least less interesting to revisit again. Not musically itself but the sheer mechanics of it. I've argued for a while that making music is maybe 5% pure inspiration during the initial stages and the rest is a painstaking completion process involving editing and mixing. It can wear down the spirits of even the most ardent individual.

Well said.
Like Mikko has said, with the proliferation of the MS-20 reissue--most people have no clue as to the fundamentals of synthesis and seemingly little inclination to deeply learn or explore them. I am not saying one was to be pedantic or scholarly but I can't help but shit mercilessly on somebody who seems to be simply "hearing first oscillating soundwave and concluding "that's good enough". Recording it to computer with utterly flat sound.

I too am certainly guilty of not always taking the time to perfect things, pushing them out prematurely with poor mixes/ill-conceived structure/poor artwork etc but it has left such a sour taste in my mouth to "settle" enough times that I think I have cured a large part of my own laziness (I hope.)

THIS. I guess it depends as well on how one's brains decipher and process the music or noise they hear. I know that I'm anal with sound or production, and also that I tend to "hear everything" in a recording. I do have preferences in terms of sounds I like to hear or production and I get that people have different tastes but for instance, the amount of releases made with shitty or bland-sounding gear out of necessity instead of aesthetics, and that therefore sound poor, is depressing to me, and it's really common with noise. But then, some artists or labels are OK with being the McDonald's of noise. I just like quality stuff.