http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmnk9dXzyh0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmnk9dXzyh0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwbakPVo3p0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwbakPVo3p0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWwPMbDMpX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWwPMbDMpX8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4B51mKh__M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4B51mKh__M)
aren't middle eastern, tibetan, african samples and instruments cheesy by now?
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 06:41:32 AM
aren't middle eastern, tibetan, african samples and instruments cheesy by now?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: http://www.eastvillageradio.com/shows/player/main.php?p=1324&f=1324-42591-20120224
I actually listen to cut hands a lot. But It feels like its digitally produced and doesnt include a lot
of noise.
Then i got to think "Why listen to cut hands if i can listen to real folk music"
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 11:45:21 AM
I actually listen to cut hands a lot. But It feels like its digitally produced and doesnt include a lot
of noise.
Then i got to think "Why listen to cut hands if i can listen to real folk music"
Cut Hands aren't folk music to begin with.
I think I was more positive before as well. Some tracks I actually like very much (Welcome to the feast of Trumpets is great), but some points made on this forum made me revalue some of this projects qualities (such as "what is the connection to afro beyond multiple layers of drumming, wouldn't this be better suited with a variation of drums insetad ofg drum machines).
I think WB said in that interview that it is his music. It is not "world music" or "tribal music".
If one looks for tribal music, it's mistake to think WB will offer it for you. He will offer you Cut Hands songs.
Some of the stuff I listened sounded actually surprisingly close to some "tribal percussion" stuff of Test Dept. I am personally turned off by sharp computer production, yet I can see why this would appeal perhaps to much wider audience than Whitehouse did.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 03, 2012, 12:19:54 PM
I think WB said in that interview that it is his music. It is not "world music" or "tribal music".
im almost sure that one song I heard had skin drums lifted from some other recording with another sound on top to make it "his own"
I like the idea and some of the artwork is pretty but havent heard anything that would merrit even an illegal download.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 03, 2012, 12:19:54 PM
I am personally turned off by sharp computer production, yet I can see why this would appeal perhaps to much wider audience than Whitehouse did.
The same impressions. The next collective hilarity, and sickness of a new classes "underground" society.
WB says in that interview linked above (audio) that he doesn't intend to generate feeling of trance, rather blow up heads.
Quote from: theotherjohn on October 03, 2012, 12:54:22 PM
You're better off listening to the original influences IMO: http://www.factmag.com/2011/09/16/fact-mix-283-cut-hands/
Good to see that no matter where you look, user comments are as retarded...
Quote from: villagestar - a year agoYikes! hopefulleee he would distance himself from such remarks these days. Dont know much about Whitehouse, but I'm aware the "Power Electronics" scene still seems to be rife with highly dubious nazi fetishization/sentiments. People do wise up though. The mix is on it, pretty decent - maybe its a genuine move on from being a twat
This is just one mild example that reminded me of the shit flinging over on "the other forum". Funny that it's always the cunts who know little about a subject that shout the loudest or comment the most frequent.
Quote from: martialgodmask on October 03, 2012, 01:44:14 PM
Funny that it's always the cunts who know little about a subject that shout the loudest or comment the most frequent.
And even if it would be true, why those people feel so bad with this knowledge? Why "nazi/pedo/satan" shaped artists are so hated by other? Yes, I know - the answer is: bad considered, fucking EMPATHY...
Back to the main topic, I think the weaknest side of CUT HANDS (I know only the first CD) is, what theotherjohn mentioned, lack of trance/tribal factor. Even if the main aim was blow up heads, there isn't such power like in CRASH WORSHIP music. Question is: if is possible create such tribal power by laptop operations, even if there was used natural sounds of ethnic instruments? I don't know any composer who could achieve this aim. Besides, I think that W. Bennett gave up with his music/art. Probably he refused his riot, his fire of the mind has gone...
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 11:45:21 AM"Why listen to cut hands if i can listen to real folk music"
I get your point and would agree. Sampling can be seen as an art but as mentioned before, Bennett really isn't making much out of his choice of material, not that I've heard anyway.
Just to suggest - some Sun Ra live material has long, frantic percussion freak-outs that mix and match any number of traditional instruments/beats with their own, more modern influence that leave Cut Hands in the dust.
Having read a few interviews with WB on the subject I think he has a much clearer agenda with the project than the actual sounds themselves. Hopefully he will develop this further, as I do think there are some excellent bits on the Cut Hands material, while it falls flat on others. I would like to see how it works live in the right environment as well.
I appreciate very much the development Whitehouse had from album to another. Sound quality and overall style was progressing (or if not progressing, at least expanding). At some point in very last years, it suddenly stopped and couple final albums have pretty much identical sound quality and identical sonic elements. And this continued to Cut Hands. Obviously if some tracks was made to be for Whitehouse album, continuum is logical. Yet I'd hope this same kind of diversity of sound would start. Not just thinking different drum beats will do it, when the sound of these computer plug-ins flattens pretty much everything to be "the same". Of course that is valid criticism to many, but especially for those who end up in extremes of dry computer sound.
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 06:41:32 AM
aren't middle eastern samples and instruments cheesy by now?
NOPE
Quote from: HONOR_IS_KING! on October 03, 2012, 11:13:28 PM
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 06:41:32 AM
aren't middle eastern samples and instruments cheesy by now?
NOPE
you can get away with it. seeing a white guy using them live is a little chessy. but yet again i still use porn samples live from time to time...
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 06:41:32 AM
aren't middle eastern, tibetan, african samples and instruments cheesy by now?
i don't think so at all. i personally find (good) middle eastern, african music (etc etc) to be far more engaging and rewarding to listen to than pretty much anything else and am not bothered by respectable (IMHO) artist trying to integrate those instruments or sounds, because i feel there is no right way an instrument has to be played so why not try something we are culturally unfamiliar with (that lacks certain preconceptions say that a guitar, or snare drum might have), i actually find the idea to be incredibly liberating.
i think bad use of these instruments in obvious new age music, or 80's jazz recordings (such as, Yusef Lateef) is what in turn has turned so many people off to the idea of this music.
As far as cut hands goes, i found the first album to be pretty good (not phenomenal, but not offensive) and the second album to be rather lacking (if i remember correctly)...it is far from being ethnic or tribal, but i didn't expect that and i it makes sense looking at WB progression through late period WH works like Birdseed, an album i enjoy and brings me a lot of joy with every listen (i find its energy to have an extremely positive effect). i really wished cut hands offered more and too wanted something more hypnotic and trance inducing. i will continue to follow the project into the future on at least some level because i think it has potential. the album artwork was however very unappealing to me, it just looks to clean, slightly cheesey.
Quote from: Peterson on October 04, 2012, 12:20:39 AM
People just want to dismiss Cut Hands because it's different, proving their normal-person "I don't like change" mentality. Personally I think C.H. is not amazing but preferable over anything noisier or more PE that Mr. Bennett could have done.
I mostly agree with that sentiment, which always bothers me - when people just act upon some stagnated conservatism (in regards to music). Happens in every genre of course. Yet then I read some criticism of it which made me think "it's quite good, But it could've been done better", so I'd say I respect constructive criticism, but despise mandatory approval or disapproval.
I'm in a swinging mood about some tracks, while others benefit from the sound (I mentioned "Welcome to the feats of trumpets earlier, which I find remarkably good). But thankfully it's not just whitehouse by another name.
http://mimsydeblois.tumblr.com/
The woman who does the artwork for CH is pretty cute.
Quote from: Peterson on October 04, 2012, 12:20:39 AM
People just want to dismiss Cut Hands because it's different, proving their normal-person "I don't like change" mentality. Personally I think C.H. is not amazing but preferable over anything noisier or more PE that Mr. Bennett could have done.
So would many, many other things.
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on October 04, 2012, 01:10:21 AM
http://mimsydeblois.tumblr.com/
The woman who does the artwork for CH is pretty cute.
I think she also does the nut emptying for Cut Hands as well...
Quote from: Black_Angkar on October 03, 2012, 06:23:45 PMI would like to see how it works live in the right environment as well.
I saw Bennett live in an underground techno venue in Stockholm a while back... a good placement, since it wasn't at all a "live gig" one should watch. It's a DJ set that people are meant to dance to, but with passages of drone and feedback-type sounds cut in here and there. From that gig, and listening to a few tracks on youtube right now, I can probably mostly agree with other people here: it's pretty ok, not great, not too bad either, don't care much. I would call this techno music, no more no less... the ideas behind it doesn't seem to unique.
Quote from: hsv on October 04, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
Quote from: Black_Angkar on October 03, 2012, 06:23:45 PMI would like to see how it works live in the right environment as well.
I saw Bennett live in an underground techno venue in Stockholm a while back... a good placement, since it wasn't at all a "live gig" one should watch. It's a DJ set that people are meant to dance to, but with passages of drone and feedback-type sounds cut in here and there. From that gig, and listening to a few tracks on youtube right now, I can probably mostly agree with other people here: it's pretty ok, not great, not too bad either, don't care much. I would call this techno music, no more no less... the ideas behind it doesn't seem to unique.
was it at the Solna subway station? In that case know the organiser. Played that venue with Feberdröm as well. To a gloriously nonexistent audience. Some drunk in the other band (Soviet Jazz?) set a sofa on fire. Well yes. I was going to see that show, but I never managed to get to Stockholm.
Quote from: Black_Angkar on October 05, 2012, 02:27:59 AM
Quote from: hsv on October 04, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
Quote from: Black_Angkar on October 03, 2012, 06:23:45 PMI would like to see how it works live in the right environment as well.
I saw Bennett live in an underground techno venue in Stockholm a while back... a good placement, since it wasn't at all a "live gig" one should watch. It's a DJ set that people are meant to dance to, but with passages of drone and feedback-type sounds cut in here and there. From that gig, and listening to a few tracks on youtube right now, I can probably mostly agree with other people here: it's pretty ok, not great, not too bad either, don't care much. I would call this techno music, no more no less... the ideas behind it doesn't seem to unique.
was it at the Solna subway station? In that case know the organiser. Played that venue with Feberdröm as well. To a gloriously nonexistent audience. Some drunk in the other band (Soviet Jazz?) set a sofa on fire. Well yes. I was going to see that show, but I never managed to get to Stockholm.
Yes exactly. It's funny because the place does 90% techno parties and such, but a few people (my gang, Johan, maybe someone else...) put on more experimental shows there (we have booked LR, Forza Albino, Puce Mary and a few others there), so with the slight crossover between experimental music audiences and ravers in that place it's a seemingly ideal spot for Cut Hands... the audience at his show was kinda split into the usual noise guys most of whom stood still and watched/listened, some "hipsters" who didn't seem to know what to think, and a few brave techno kids who really went crazy.
I think I was in CPH when you played, otherwise I would have come for sure. Johan is sadly kind of bad at advertising his nights. I heard something about a sofa incident as well. But now we're getting off topic.
Nothing is cheesy, if it's done right, with conviction and a sense of aesthetics. I hear and see none of these traits in Cut Hands, an Internet dating, self-esteem flawed Richie Hatwin wannabe has been PE twat mimicking the worst parts of the 90s/00s Power Noise scene on a cheap laptop. Both live and on record the project does next to nothing for me. No focus on building a mood/experimenting or blowing heads for that matter. Just the same rehashed sterile routine for every track. I know I'm being pretty harsh here, but as I see it the question would rather be "Why bother discussing Cut Hands?" There's tons of interesting new music out there why use time on such a uninspired death cramps
Quote from: KHH on October 05, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
Nothing is cheesy, if it's done right, with conviction and a sense of aesthetics. I hear and see none of these traits in Cut Hands, an Internet dating, self-esteem flawed Richie Hatwin wannabe has been PE twat mimicking the worst parts of the 90s/00s Power Noise scene on a cheap laptop. Both live and on record the project does next to nothing for me. No focus on building a mood/experimenting or blowing heads for that matter. Just the same rehashed sterile routine for every track. I know I'm being pretty harsh here, but as I see it the question would rather be "Why bother discussing Cut Hands?" There's tons of interesting new music out there why use time on such a uninspired death cramps
Your initial statement nails it very much, though I disagree with the rest of the sentiment. I think this project has its flaws but not so awful/irrelevant it shouldn't be discussed at all.
We certainly discuss it because of Whitehouse connection.
I think the curious point WB has mentioned before, and also mentions in linked radio interview, is that he considers it blessing he came from "outside", not really growing inside/along genre of music. So his approach is different. In a way I have some respect for this - as opposed to shallow copycat bands simply following expectations of genre.
But to say, this would be guaranteed better route - I strongly agree. It appears quite clear, that the guys who simply are not interested and do not follow what is being done, can't really put things in perspective. Their "new" or "mindblowing" thing might have been routine for decades. Their neat sounds with wonderful new tools may purely accidental. At one point of history you end up with Korg ms-10 or WASP... In next moment you have kaos pad and generic plug-ins with laptop. You go for it, and it comes out good or bad.
Especially Whitehouse is far more than just accident based on getting "wasp synth". That tool or even better tools, have been in hands of thousands, who failed to go as far as Whitehouse. But there are great number of examples where people just "lost it" - at least when looking from perspective of listener. And it appears to have a lot to do with not being really interested in type of music in general. Or not been into it for several decades, and then just return to do "my own thing". Which very often falls miserably low when perspective of level just isn't there and nothing is pushing forward. (see quality control discussion)
cut hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GglYtHJhBhY
test dept: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seYltGfnrhQ
cut hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorXEtSM3xg
Rapoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2daKDHBxV8&feature=related
cut hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YyUOf9lDjg
Dissecting Table: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUop-xx_otY&feature=related
Winterkälte: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggObjVux-t4&feature=relmfu
Cut Hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmbEBIm7r0Q
etc.. Of course these are not "the same", but certainly as much same as saying all noise or PE is poorly rehashing ideas.
Of course there being good bands, doesn't exclude possibility of CH being also good, but it appears to me, that this whole "tribal industrial" thing that's been going since.. I don't know, early 80's, has used pretty much every idea but in less technologically flat methods. And the new innovations found it CH's work is most of all in ears who have not followed what has been done for decades.
Certainly I approve that artists who has gained some status by delivering exceptionally good material - will automatically be noticed and discussed much more than some new guy. But obviously the war of life, should dominate that every moment is the struggle where artists needs to prove excellency. If it's based merely on past achievements, it simply should die soon on natural causes. I'm sure it will happen to many of who have done "come backs", when span of attention simply is drying up. Theirs and audiences.
Most of these "new" things, be it Prurient that sounds like late 80's Controlled Bleeding or something.. it's new and innovative for those who have missed the big picture of genre. Nowadays it's so damn easy to find stuff, new and old, that I would recommend those who are blown away by some "gimmick", check out past where such gimmick may have blossomed in natural creative flow.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 06, 2012, 10:19:18 AM
Most of these "new" things, be it Prurient that sounds like late 80's Controlled Bleeding or something.. it's new and innovative for those who have missed the big picture of genre. Nowadays it's so damn easy to find stuff, new and old, that I would recommend those who are blown away by some "gimmick", check out past where such gimmick may have blossomed in natural creative flow.
Agree completely.
Now getting slightly off topic, but this Prurient material (I only heard "A meal can be made" from that album), sounds like just EBM/dancemusic with growl vocals, which of course says nothing about quality at all (only a matter of taste), why people treat this as treading new ground I can hardly grasp (I mean as early as SPK, bands moved in a danceable pop direction). The only reason this is still relevant in a strictly PE/industrial context is the name of the project. To connect this to both CH and your earlier post - I think music "scenes" are less about musical styles and more about infrastructure - artists, fans and labels. A label like Release the bats is an excellent example of this as they represent a high level of eclecticism and yet manage to make it coherent independent of the music itself.
i just wanted to chime in with a nonsensical reply regarding the earlier mentions of arab/middle eastern samples and how vatican shadow is muslimgauze for these shitheaded little 20 year old emo assholes who have never heard of him and idolize the hospital records guy as if he invented noise. regarding cut hands and the aforementioned muslimgauze tribute band, they are playing london next saturday but unfortunately the concert starts at 10pm and ends at 6am leaving me likely to get assaulted in a filthy slumhole so i shall not attend. oh well. woe is me.
Quote from: Johann on October 04, 2012, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: jangbi08 on October 03, 2012, 06:41:32 AMaren't middle eastern, tibetan, african samples and instruments cheesy by now?
i don't think so at all. i personally find (good) middle eastern, african music (etc etc) to be far more engaging and rewarding to listen to than pretty much anything else and am not bothered by respectable (IMHO) artist trying to integrate those instruments or sounds, because i feel there is no right way an instrument has to be played so why not try something we are culturally unfamiliar with (that lacks certain preconceptions say that a guitar, or snare drum might have), i actually find the idea to be incredibly liberating.
Good response. I wish there was more use of Middle Eastern and North African musics...if studied and understood a bit before use. I find Azam Ali, Yas, Niyaz, Amar El Achab, Farida & the Iraqi Maqam Ensemble, and the like to be some of the most beautiful, most interesting, , and most powerful music to grace my ears these days. Indian classical isn't too far behind with a rich sound palette that could be used outside its traditions.
Quote from: jc on October 07, 2012, 01:49:14 AMtribute band, they are playing london next saturday but unfortunately the concert starts at 10pm and ends at 6am leaving me likely to get assaulted in a filthy slumhole so i shall not attend. oh well. woe is me.
Off topic but just in case you hadn't heard, there's a 10x better noise/PE london show clashing with that on the same night at an even filthier slumhole (venue if not location-wise) - http://www.wegottickets.com/event/180753
I was watching The Serpent and the Rainbow last night and a lot of the music in it made me immediately think of Cut Hands. Can't find much on youtube though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_bDwu1MJ0I this one about 2 minutes in sounds pretty similar, at least sonically if not rhythmically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cza26wA59gI
Here's some pretty weird Haitian voodoo music, with a didgeridoo for some reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awkz81C_qzQ
New Cut Hands album is an interesting listen. Not comparable in any way to the Whitehouse sound at all anymore. Title track reminds me of Nurse With Wound 'Cold' from Thunder Perfect Mind but with real percussion - like a frenzied hand typing a computer keyboard. A few harsh electronic tones on 'No Spare No Soul' which stand out as shocking in an album which is very very low-key. Science-fiction style spoken introduction gives atmosphere of fear and strangeness - the way that so much of what follows is understated really adds to the sinister qualities of the album. Nice artwork, the sleevenotes (also by MDB) try a bit too hard but have some evocative aspects.
I don't regret buying this album at all, it's much better than the first attempt. Nothing like noise or PE, a lot of this really does sound like slightly tense elevator music but I get the feeling I will find more in it later.
"(also by MDB)"
who is MDB?
Mimsy Du Blois
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on November 15, 2012, 02:12:03 AM
"(also by MDB)"
who is MDB?
Men's Dirty Buttholes. It's a club in San Francisco.
Cut Hands is coming to Finland (see Muissa maailmoissa at Live Show discussion). I bought ticket to the event before it was announced to the bill. Anyone seen him live lately? Some clips from youtube range from eh, interesting to total crap.
Never really listened to the record and the first live show I saw was not great but the more recent one I was at was really good and FUN.
Cut Hands is also the opener on the US Godflesh tour this spring, replacing Prurient. I was looking forward to seeing Prurient again, but Cut Hands should be interesting at least.
Im pretty disappointed that cut hands is replacing prurient actually but i cant even make the new date so my ticket is going to waste anyway.
One could also say - Why bother to listen to endless Whitehouse copyists, just listen to the original.