Negativity and noise/industrial

[Thermophile]

Was thinking that in thematic (artworks, titles, aesthetic) the genres are mostly concerned with negative emotions or negative perceptions of the world.

I think in this domain it overlaps with some metal idioms such as death metal, grind-core or black metal.

Thoughts?

[Balor/SS1535]

To me, noise itself is usually a negative force---the opposite of meaning, the breach of structure, and so on.  The negativity in content often reflects it because it helps create an artisitc result more capable of challenging/upending/exploiting social control structures.

[brutalist_tapes]

i agree with balor, it is inherently negative, if just in like, a philosophical sense, deconstruction instead of construction, and so on. but maybe as people get more used to noise we will get more "positive" and upliftning noise, ala the new boyfriends? btw, i am totally behind that stuff, noise doesn't need to be angry, although i still prefer the dark stuff myself

[Balor/SS1535]

i agree with balor, it is inherently negative, if just in like, a philosophical sense, deconstruction instead of construction, and so on. but maybe as people get more used to noise we will get more "positive" and upliftning noise, ala the new boyfriends? btw, i am totally behind that stuff, noise doesn't need to be angry, although i still prefer the dark stuff myself

Maybe it's framing the term in a slightly different way, but I still think that The New Boyfriends is negative in the sense that it creates a space for freedom and to be joyous.  And the creating of that space requires the breaking down of barriers to it.

[brutalist_tapes]

i agree with balor, it is inherently negative, if just in like, a philosophical sense, deconstruction instead of construction, and so on. but maybe as people get more used to noise we will get more "positive" and upliftning noise, ala the new boyfriends? btw, i am totally behind that stuff, noise doesn't need to be angry, although i still prefer the dark stuff myself

Maybe it's framing the term in a slightly different way, but I still think that The New Boyfriends is negative in the sense that it creates a space for freedom and to be joyous.  And the creating of that space requires the breaking down of barriers to it.

that was exactly what i mean with being artistic and philosophical negative, you phrased it better than me. but still they are nice guys. but i also think there is some real dark negativity in noise, think atrax morgue, the approach where this music somehow fits in with the sickest desires.... i personally find that very interesting, but i also like the more philosophical and academic or so approach

[Andrew McIntosh]

I think it's possible to feel happy and excited about Harsh Noise, especially in a live setting. For me it's a kind of exaltation in some kind of destructive power.

As for Industrial, PE, etc - it's got to be negative, for mine. I'm prepared to believe there's positive examples of that stuff but I'm not interested in that. If I want positivity in sound I'll listen to other stuff.

[Cranial Blast]

I think it's a matter of who is defining "negativity" society's point of view or just the mundane term for things generally in discord? I like to think in power electronics/noise that there is re-layered sentiment in what is "negativity" I'd like to think it holds some merit to the mundane meaning, but also carries this ideal of rejection of morality to the point that "negativity" is just normal response, perhaps even by default to world standards. I like to think power electronics/noise is inherently nihilistic and of course that's just my view and I'm sure others have a different view in regards to the topic. I think there is a confusion that with "negativity" comes unhappiness and that's not the feeling I am getting, personally speaking. A great quote by Dr. Channard (Hellraiser II) just after becoming a fixture of Hell permanently...he says "and to think I hesitated" I think a moment like that says it all... I think we revel in negativity and are blind to it, it's the outside world that defines it as "negativity" more so I think.

[Bleak Existence]

Keep positivity out of noise.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I would consider it needs angle to consider... negative towards what?
If negativity expresses denial, disagreement, or refusal... it rarely does it towards noise. Noise itself may be the positive aspect of it?

I surely do not see noise I make as "negative". It deals with things that some may feel are representing the negative sides in society. Not always, but sometimes. Of course act of noise making or choice to do this, instead of living so called "ordinary life", is indeed refusal for norm of mainstream society. So in that way, yes, negative, but for me, very much positive.

[Commander15]

As MikkoA wrote: negative toward what? From the perspective of bourgoise society industrial / noise sure is negative phenomenon: critical, observant and contrarian  counterculture that doesn't conform to the ideals of mass culture.

Content wise it might be percieved "negative", but i think that notion is purely in the eye of beholder, so to speak. I believe that artist can approach the seemingly negative subject matter, i.e. human condition or societal decay, from the neutral position or from the position of outside observer etc. In this regard industrial and noise do not greatly differ from, lets say, expressionistic art. It can and will present the view on the state of affairs filtered thru the artists own hands, mind, soul, heart and worldviews, leaving the listener to make his own conclusions from it.

[Johann]

I personally do not find noise to be negative, and my favorite stuff I rather find life affirming, like the schimpfluc, haters or TNB stuff. I think this is a perception that many outsiders and new listeners experience while getting into it, part of it is artist and content, the other part is developing an ear that provides context and order to the sound.

Even stuff like PE like Slogun, Whitehouse etc usually makes me laugh (not in a dismissive way) but in the way Judas Priest, Candle mass or Bathory does, it's like posturing in a safe space and I think in the best cases the artist is aware of it, at worst I just sorta feel sad. I personally know that in my most negative and depressive moments I don't listen to anything at all, sometimes for months at a time. I feel the environmental sound itself produces something so much more bleak than anything being created could.

Negativity is a perception we as listeners/viewers throw upon something, be it the environment, a song, or fragment of. Such as a sample of kids on a playground, which could seem extremely unsettling with context removed. content, themes and messages are things the artist can express in their packaging that can move the listener to the perception or intent. But any act of creation even through the lense of destruction is ultimately a positive act.

Real destruction is wholly negative, your house burning down, an unintended car accident or a mass shooting. You can view them through an aesthetic lense as an outsider but these are different than the deconstruction of a filing cabinet durning and active act of recording.

[host body]

More like weird & obscure, often contrarian or transgressive (if that word means anything anymore) but I don't really find the main force behind noise being negativity.

[Cranial Blast]

As MikkoA wrote: negative toward what? From the perspective of bourgoise society industrial / noise sure is negative phenomenon: critical, observant and contrarian  counterculture that doesn't conform to the ideals of mass culture.

Content wise it might be percieved "negative", but i think that notion is purely in the eye of beholder, so to speak. I believe that artist can approach the seemingly negative subject matter, i.e. human condition or societal decay, from the neutral position or from the position of outside observer etc. In this regard industrial and noise do not greatly differ from, lets say, expressionistic art. It can and will present the view on the state of affairs filtered thru the artists own hands, mind, soul, heart and worldviews, leaving the listener to make his own conclusions from it.

I agree with the "eye of the beholder" notion. The listener should always be able to formulate their own personal conclusions, based around their own specific experiences upon listening. Definitely an interesting multi dimensional perspective, one that should be embraced.

[Moran]

I don't find noise necessarily "negative". Noise I like usually feels cathartic and pleasant. I often feel that the images of filth, disease and suffering attached to noise releases are not related to how I feel about the sounds I experience.

[Stipsi]

I don't find noise necessarily "negative". Noise I like usually feels cathartic and pleasant. I often feel that the images of filth, disease and suffering attached to noise releases are not related to how I feel about the sounds I experience.

I can't say it better.