Noise gentrification?

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, October 05, 2019, 01:23:32 PM

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FreakAnimalFinland

Another topic spawned from harsh truths podcasts. Fairly amusing episode of The Shame Cup can be listened here:
https://harshtruthspodcast.wordpress.com/2018/08/02/episode-9-the-shame-cup/

There was mentioned genrification of noise. If term doesn't seem familiar, in common use it means general term for the arrival of wealthier people in an existing urban district, a related increase in rents and property values, and changes in the district's character and culture.
Before this podcast, I never heard it used in context of changing underground culture character, but really neatly fitting term!

Despite humoristic tone of the episode, perhaps exactly the humoristic approach was that reveals a bit about it. It was described as A light-hearted episode for everyone needing a harsh look in the mirror! Certainly the power electronics edgelords and dead body collages get their share of deserved comments. I can't quote exact comments, but there was remarks made towards people who come into noise scene and start to make moralistic judgements. In the very same podcast I keep being slightly annoyed by usage of contemporary terms like "noise community" and all that load of crap that comes with utterly unwanted extra baggage.

It was called decade+ ago pussification of noise by no less than RRRon Lessard, who saw the shift happening before his eyes. I guess that suitable term now is noise gentrification, underlines that it already took place? Question, if there is really any, is, do you miss the old neighborhood? Or did it really change at all, now just communication makes it more visible?


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GEWALTMONOPOL

Those art grant funded events that happened a few years ago here in the UK fits the category. They were instigated by old timers and not new comers with deep pockets though. These old timers being only too happy to perform their old hits to mostly gawking outsiders at various posh venues. In reality nothing but nostalgia parties with an underground veneer.

I'm glad it ran out of steam.
Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

Johann

Not sure if it relates but I saw a New Yorker comic recently where a woman made a list of either things she "liked" for men or things she "pretended to like for men", I can't remember nor do I care enough to look it up, but included in it all there was a darkened scribble with "Noise Music" written above it. Something I don't  think I expected to ever see in a magazine like that. It also seems more people are aware of it then a decade before, probably because of YouTube...

There is certainly a pussification of noise, but I gotta say, I find a lot of current noise repeating the same old tropes, same type of collages, it doesn't want to make me check out newer projects when I can look back at old stuff that did it so well. The rise of PC fascist in noise is equally annoying. No one has a sense of humor...art school kids...

PTM Jim

It is 100% the WORST thing that has happened to the scene, at least in the US. I blame the punks for coming in because it was something new to them and then them bringing their punk morals and attempting (read: pretty much successfully) to completely change the dynamics. It's a microcosm of call-out culture.
I don't understand why anyone would even be interested in something that they are so appalled by and have the nerve to come in and change what has existed many many years before they were born.

aububs

Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on October 05, 2019, 02:57:10 PM
Those art grant funded events that happened a few years ago here in the UK fits the category. They were instigated by old timers and not new comers with deep pockets though. These old timers being only too happy to perform their old hits to mostly gawking outsiders at various posh venues. In reality nothing but nostalgia parties with an underground veneer.

I'm glad it ran out of steam.

what events are you referring to? the bristol schimpfluch thing? the lafms thing in london?

eraciator

I think people have always engaged critically with noise and it's a bit naive to think it can be shielded from what is happening with culture in a wider sense. Most scenes ossify slightly after a few decades.

That said I am always well up for slagging off newbies. Personally I think things took a dive when all the metal dudes showed up.

Zeno Marx

I'm not familiar with the terminology, so correct as necessary.  Isn't some of this partially due to membership or patronage of art institutes and other places?  Especially when you see older, completely out of their element people in the ranks.  I can remember even going to Dead Can Dance performances at otherwise art venues, seeing people far outside any common demographic in the audience.  I later found out many of them were big donors, season ticket holders, people with fellowships, and other situations that tied them to the venue or art scene.  They didn't necessarily have interest in that particular thing, but they systematically showed up to support the venue, scene, artists in general, etc.  And if some of those are active creative types, it's also an invitation to dabble out of mild curiosity.  Here's this shiny new thing to them, so let's try it.  They don't care about the cultural aspect.  They have no interest in noise, as an example, culture or society.  This thing they randomly experienced via their normal art institute habits piques their interest for a minute.  It's within their context, but outside of general context.  I've always viewed art culture like an ant colony.  That's not to be read as negative, either.  Lots of activity.  Scrambling about.  Movement.  Distractions.  Highly social, and easily influenced, while simultaneously being sequestered.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

Theodore

Just a thought, since i have no experience with local scenes etc. , i wonder is it cause an 'art academy' 'elitist' minority may see some interest in noise and gets their hands on the subject ? Or is it just cause of the general pussification of younger generations, who a big part of them grew up learning to feel insulted by anything, who cant handle it if they get a little bullied at school, who never played at the streets, never fought, never ... never ...

Well, these kids, teenagers, may come into noise too. And if there is one thing they have learned well is "You wanna change the world ? Tweet about it !" . "Internet is power, you little helpless maggot, unite your voice with million other maggots like you, and become one giant unbeatable maggot-mass. You have the power now. World is yours."
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

Duncan

Noise podcasts are a bigger sign of gentrification and contemporary dilution of underground culture than some insincere art student tourists who don't like Bizarre Uproar.

Zeno Marx

Quote from: Duncan on October 06, 2019, 12:06:48 AM
Noise podcasts are a bigger sign of gentrification and contemporary dilution of underground culture than some insincere art student tourists who don't like Bizarre Uproar.
Funny.  Not an off perspective at all.  If the options are a lunkhead, football flexer, dipshit, troglodyte type, and the goon rhetoric and opinions that come with them, or a "pussified" art tourist, give me the art tourist.  I'm not really one for desperately needing things to be new and unique, but if you desire new and unique, you might want to put a bet down on the art tourist being more likely to come up with such.  Their frame of reference is likely to be far less restrictive, with biases and preferences yet to be established.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

holy ghost

I may be way off base here but after thinking on this there seems to be cycles in this phenomena over the years. Merzbow on Relapse around 1998 - when he could book a huge tour (or maybe he was opening for Mr. Bungle or some shit?) without any real issue, fast forward to Wolf Eyes on Sub Pop in what, 2004-2006-ish.... now Merzbow is cancelled (kidding....) due to his online meltdown about the noise podcast about him and Wolf Eyes is a meme page with 80,000 followers. Maybe the next thing was Full of Hell utilizing noise elements and that would have been what, 2012-ish? Now it's definitely (maybe) the influx of guys from the black metal scene who love that edgy shit. I'm probably missing a few cycles.

I suppose if I was a more educated person in the realm of cultural shifts I'd say it probably has as much to do with the "old guard" become disillusioned by the ever changing landscape and crying for the"good old days" as much as it is the influx of new faces - personally I don't really care who is into it as the scene right now seems really strong.

aububs

give me the lunkhead football flexer dipshit troglodyte with goon rhetoric

Eigen Bast

I view gentrification in the context of noise as the social media influenced shift towards the "curation" of inclusive "experimental music" over allowing people to let their freak flag fly, particularly when it comes down to confrontational performance. It's pretty baneful stuff. I once had someone tell me "harsh noise is inherently misogynistic" when I asked why they wouldn't book anything heavy for their monthly "experimental night". Again and again I see venues/bookers more interested in an artists biography and "artist statement" over the visceral quality of their sounds. This dovetails nicely with the local scene thread; it requires active and thoughtful pushback from noizeheads otherwise you may find yourself painted into a corner, branded racist and misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. because your cover art triggers some connection in the mind of scene tourists/gentrifiers, who through the sheer force of capital that they're swinging around, run the only venues that would allow you to play. It's your scene, defend it!

On a more literal interpretation, my local scene has had several noise booking venues deep in the hood over the years and I am always stoked by random street freaks coming in and headbanging to a harsh set. I'll take that any day over a bunch of 15-dollar-hamburger-enjoyers in clear framed glasses sitting in folding chairs while someone plays a speak and spell through a peavey practice amp.

Bloated Slutbag

#13
Can't say that I've ever thought about it or cared one way or the other. As far as who is presenting the shit or who shows up. I've always just been gratified when this or that project rolls through a venue that's within striking distance.

Still one of the most memorable Merzbow performances was outdoors at a major NTT funded media arts center in Tokyo. At the start of the event, which presumably included various multi-media people, probably Ryoji Ikeda and others, you couldn't get anywhere near the stage...or the giant speaker stacks. When Merz and then-hubby started up the massive crowd, numbering I'd guess in the thousands, dispersed real quick. After making my way to stand right in front of one of the stacks I recognized exactly one noisehead from a few past events, bowed as me and shaking slightly from the bodily pressures. There may have been a handful of others still hanging around by the end, can't recall. Loudest goddamn show ever.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

Lazrs3

#14
Ahem, I am a bit guilty there, I remember when at College doing Art, in 1997 Frieze Art Magazine in the UK did a feature on Japanese Noise and there was a free 3"CD with Massona, Merzbow and (I think) Pain Jerk. I was fascinated by that article (I just googled and Russell Haswell wrote it.)  I remember being blown away by Massona and not liking Merzbow as much. That along with Premature Ejaculation years earlier introduced me to an aspect of noise I could take off from. When the Wolf Eyes thing was big, that seemed to make it acceptable everywhere to say you liked Noise, I remember that a lot, Wolf Eyes and Merzbow was very easy to buy in the 2000s and I guess the coverage in Wire in the 2000s helped a lot.