Marking Your Own/Surrounding Person/Territory In Culture (MYOPIC to MYSTIC)

Started by theotherjohn, September 27, 2020, 07:05:38 PM

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JLIAT

Quote from: KDH on October 02, 2020, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: JLIAT on October 02, 2020, 08:31:21 PM
My point is that noise, HN HNW as being different from other music, it can carry no message, it requires no human skills...
I could swear just yesterday I listened to a beautifully and humanly skillful and meaningful noise tape multiple times on repeat.

The idea that creation is pointless and meaningless  is understandably grim. As for repeat, the idea of such a world Nietzsche found the most gruesome of ideas. Lets hope he was wrong and you are right.

JLIAT

Quote from: W.K. on October 03, 2020, 12:55:23 AM


'How much I dislike JLIAT posts,
Why?

Quote from: W.K. on October 03, 2020, 12:55:23 AM

In the end, we are all just a bunch of idiosyncratic weirdos, of course there is no way to be marketable to a bigger audience.    

How do you measure the significance of anything? Say in Art or Science... by its fan base size?  So in pop music, its its popularity, I think on Youtube Bohemian Rhapsody has a billion plays. Most pop bands are compared to The Beatles in terms of popularity... films on box office sales...

In a democracy you get Trump as president, whatever the vote rigging he has a bigger following than the HNW scene... and he is no Einstein. Who here understands SR and GR fully, can do the maths? I can't.  What are the consequences, (apart from the Atom Bomb!).  Well that most peoples ideas of time and cause and effect are wrong. Is this important? Maybe. People who have a religious belief it seems live happier longer lives. Its maybe nicer to think some supper being made us, rather than we evolved from single celled organisms... etc. The Fan base for religion world wide is BIG. It has its stickers, and merch...

Quote

PC 25 b 22

This the shelf-mark in the British Library for Juliette, a novel by the Marquis de Sade....

the shelf mark indicates the book is in a "special category" and you will be monitored by the staff when you read it. It's never been in the top sales for fiction.

Back in 1800 and something some guy wrote a book, i think he sold 5 or 6 copies, in which at the beginning some guy utters "God is dead"...

There is a very popular film The Matrix... you might have seen it?

Quote
Simulacra and Simulation (Simulacres et Simulation in French), published in 1981, is a philosophical treatise by Jean Baudrillard. The Matrix makes many connections to Simulacra and Simulation. Neo is seen with a copy of Simulacra and Simulation at the beginning of The Matrix. He uses the hollowed book as a hiding place for cash and his important computer files. Neo's hollowed copy of the book has the chapter "On Nihilism" in the middle, not at the end of the book, where it is in reality...

Maybe you get the picture, but maybe not.

Back in the early 21stC noise made a huge impact in academia. Unlike any 'popular' music before... because it was so radical, it the noise... there were many seminars and books trying to figure out what this noise was all about, what it meant. That is what rattled them...

Quote
In the end, we are all just a bunch of idiosyncratic weirdos, of course there is no way to be marketable to a bigger audience.  

Then its safe.



Then it is not safe at all...














theotherjohn

Mulling over it for the past day or so, I can maybe think of one example where noise (or at the very least, non-musical sound) has become a phenomena or culture treading into the mainstream - auto[nomous] sensory meridian response, or ASMR. It's easy listening noise for sure compared to what we enjoy/tolerate, but it's noise no doubt (and arguably just as perverse as PE if its critics are to be believed) and rather popular going by the views, durations and brand deals of certain YouTube channels and videos. And demographically, it seems to be the flipside to our brand of noise with its large female following and roster of ASMRtists. Should we just start marketing noise as ASMR from now on if we want to reach a bigger audience? The Rita could be selling out stadiums if so.

There is also the sister phenomena of misophonia (hatred of sound), a sort of inverse to ASMR which seems to be largely centred on repetitive trigger sounds (= music?). BBC Radio 2 once focused on this subject during one of their popular daytime segments but curiously enough, I first found out about this from a very isolated female sufferer I met online who was also massively into black metal.

Of course, you also get crossover ASMR/noise stuff like this: https://www.vice.com/en/article/gvnw3m/noise-show-toothbrush-yellow-swans-merzbow-conspiracy. I've still yet to see this take off in the same way within noise circles as, say, breakdancing does at hip hop concerts, but it's a unique sort of crowd participation nonetheless. Maybe noise audiences should get "noisy" too at shows beyond merely cheering - popping bubblewrap, ruffling loud clothes, scraping nearby surfaces etc - by way of expressing enjoyment and further fuelling the live sound? It would certainly make a change from just standing there with your arms folded.

MyrtleLake

That is an interesting take (ASMR). I know a bartender that admitted to me she really enjoyed the sound of throwing empty glass beer bottles into the bin. The sharp, high pitched clatter made her feel good. I consequently gave her the Sissy Spacek "Glass" (Misanthropic Agenda, 2009) CD. She is no fan of noise, but that release was openly welcomed and curiously enjoyed.

As far as "culture" is concerned... One unifier more prevalent than most is cut-up collage art. While not unique as an art form to noise, it is so ubiquitous that I find it hard to ignore. I'm not sure there is any larger point to make of that. Just an observation.

Bloated Slutbag

Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

Bloated Slutbag

Mikawa. I think we all like the idea of Mikawa. I have this feeling, don't ask me why, that the subject of recent Incaps sales are rare to crop up in the weekly updates with the team. That and that infamous Snuff Jazz tee, which he says he made himself and appears on at least two album covers (maybe he has several such tees). So maybe a good start would be making your own favored artist's merch, in editions of 1.

Man I'm useless at contributing to this topic.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

JLIAT

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on October 07, 2020, 07:04:35 PM
.....  So maybe a good start would be making your own favored artist's merch, in editions of 1.

Man I'm useless at contributing to this topic.

Not so fast there, I think for me "So maybe a good start would be making your own favored artist's merch, in editions of 1." is right on the money...

A kind of epiphany occurred when queuing to get into the Centre Pompidou, on a first Sunday (all museums are free) – the queue was miles, so we skipped and went to the the  Musée du quai Branley, a museum of ethnographic* art from around the world... and it knocked me out, there was all this fantastic stuff made by guys who just made stuff not for some big museum or show!

It also chimes with another idea, that of 'cargo cults' where so called primitive peoples make fake aircraft control towers, after experiencing technologies of the real thing during WW2.

So both of these and " a good start would be making your own favored artist's merch, " would IMO fit "Marking Your Own/Surrounding Person/Territory In Culture"... emphasis on OWN.  


* these are giant wood gongs - well over 10 feet some of them... pity no one could play one... i'd never seen anything the like... etc.




Balor/SS1535

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on October 07, 2020, 07:04:35 PM
So maybe a good start would be making your own favored artist's merch, in editions of 1.

Man I'm useless at contributing to this topic.

This makes me think of an older thread on here about making your own art for your favorite projects (covers, posters, etc.).  So I think that this is a great idea.

One thing that I have started doing recently is finding and then printing out and saving physical copies of interviews, articles, and so forth on power electronics and related subjects.  I am trying to piece together my own zine compilation/archive for the purpose of personal inspiration.

Balor/SS1535

Quote from: JLIAT on October 07, 2020, 07:23:59 PM


* these are giant wood gongs - well over 10 feet some of them... pity no one could play one... i'd never seen anything the like... etc.





Those are really cool.  Though, given the context in which you mentioned them, the only natural thing to do would be to construct and play your own!

WhiteWarlock

Quote from: JLIAT on October 07, 2020, 07:23:59 PM


* these are giant wood gongs - well over 10 feet some of them... pity no one could play one... i'd never seen anything the like... etc.





Technically those aren't "Gongs" & remind me more of gigantic percussive woodblocks.
gong
[ gawng, gong ]
noun
a large bronze disk, of Asian origin, having an upturned rim, that produces a vibrant, hollow tone when struck, usually with a stick or hammer that has a padded head.
a shallow bell sounded by a hammer operated electrically or mechanically: The fire-alarm system will automatically sound the gong.
(in a clock or watch) a rod or wire, either straight or bent into a spiral, on which the time is struck.
British Slang. a medal or military decoration.
verb (used without object)
to sound as a gong does; ring, chime, or reverberate.

ummm sort of lusted after cymbals & gongs... and probably still do... ~shrug~

BTW hiya James long time no see/read/debate/argue

hope you are doing well & having fun with you Eurorack!

Karlheinz Stockhausen - Mikrophonie 1 - Film 1966
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhXU7wQCU0Y
Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured?
FreakMaker
SynthWizards/N01ZE

JLIAT

Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on October 07, 2020, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: JLIAT on October 07, 2020, 07:23:59 PM


* these are giant wood gongs - well over 10 feet some of them... pity no one could play one... i'd never seen anything the like... etc.



Those are really cool.  Though, given the context in which you mentioned them, the only natural thing to do would be to construct and play your own!

This was my point, unlike contemporary art which exists in world wide systems of distribution and sales much of the stuff in the ethnographic museum was made by people for themselves or locally.  BTW i like your idea of your own zines.  I dont know if you are aware of lulu, a self publishing service which is very cheap, even for hardback books. With runs as limited as a single copy, you could have your own library.... which was your own...

JLIAT

Quote from: WhiteWarlock on October 07, 2020, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: JLIAT on October 07, 2020, 07:23:59 PM


* these are giant wood gongs - well over 10 feet some of them... pity no one could play one... i'd never seen anything the like... etc.



Technically those aren't "Gongs" & remind me more of gigantic percussive woodblocks.
gong
[ gawng, gong ]
noun
a large bronze disk, of Asian origin, having an upturned rim, that produces a vibrant, hollow tone when struck, usually with a stick or hammer that has a padded head.
a shallow bell sounded by a hammer operated electrically or mechanically: The fire-alarm system will automatically sound the gong.
(in a clock or watch) a rod or wire, either straight or bent into a spiral, on which the time is struck.
British Slang. a medal or military decoration.
verb (used without object)
to sound as a gong does; ring, chime, or reverberate.

ummm sort of lusted after cymbals & gongs... and probably still do... ~shrug~

BTW hiya James long time no see/read/debate/argue

hope you are doing well & having fun with you Eurorack!

Karlheinz Stockhausen - Mikrophonie 1 - Film 1966
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhXU7wQCU0Y


Well they were called 'gongs' as far as i remember, but maybe a bad translation from the french. They were hollow... i'd like to know more if anyone can provide info, or better a link to a sound file. And there were massive metal gongs, how they made these given the technology is sobering...

I guess given the topic i can reply on a personal note. Eurorack is now full... but note literally  trying to find a personal territory out of the the city... and given this pandemic its a nightmare...

Also have the idea of creating a personal meta/pata physics... ;-)




JLIAT

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/309995

The towering slit gongs of northern Vanuatu are among the largest musical instruments in the world...

Dimensions:H. 14 ft. 7 1/4 in. × W. 28 in. × D. 23 1/2 in.

14 feet!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp2HL6pC_PU

Balor/SS1535

Quote from: JLIAT on October 08, 2020, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on October 07, 2020, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: JLIAT on October 07, 2020, 07:23:59 PM


* these are giant wood gongs - well over 10 feet some of them... pity no one could play one... i'd never seen anything the like... etc.



Those are really cool.  Though, given the context in which you mentioned them, the only natural thing to do would be to construct and play your own!

This was my point, unlike contemporary art which exists in world wide systems of distribution and sales much of the stuff in the ethnographic museum was made by people for themselves or locally.  BTW i like your idea of your own zines.  I dont know if you are aware of lulu, a self publishing service which is very cheap, even for hardback books. With runs as limited as a single copy, you could have your own library.... which was your own...

Interesting point about the ethnographic objects (for lack of a better word, I guess) when compared with contemporary art.  I guess the question becomes, then, how have the ethnographic objects changed as a result of their placement within the modern museum system/international art trade?  It reminds me also of an ad I saw in the Wall Street Journal yesterday for an upcoming auction where a dentist's set manufactured for a queen of Spain will be put up for sale.  It is definitely not an art object in it's original use (it had a functional aspect as well as an aesthetic one), but it seems to have become one now.

Perhaps it has been hinted at above, but it seems that the same thing might happen to noise/p.e. if it enters the more traditional art realms.

I have not heard of Lulu, but I think I might look into it if I compile enough material.  Great idea!

JLIAT

I think the idea of Art and Artist is a western 'invention'. Developed from the Renaissance onwards, in both fine art and music. Whereas once these were very much crafts people doing what their patrons wanted, (normally the church and nobility) during the 18th / 19th they achieved a higher status, that of genius. Thus the value of their works... 'ethnographic'  "Art" - well its seeing these objects in a different context. But for me its not the privileged gallery museum context of today that is significant, but their original context where they were made without the ideas regarding western art.
Certainly pre agrarian art existed in smaller communities without the institutions of civilization. So for me it shows how making, music, or perhaps sounds, and images is something far more fundamental than the structures we now live in. I think this stuff (wasnt art back then) begins around 40,000 years ago, agriculture @ 10,000 years. There are "flutes" @ 40,000 year old...

As for Lulu, i'd recommend it. As there is no charge until you actually order a hard copy i'd suggest you practice using it and setting up a book. PDF is preferred, but JPG and Word also. The front back cover (full colour) is created separately, they have templates but you can set the layout without these, which gives you greater flexibility. Once you have your book you can down load the pdf and see what it looks like, you can also keep the book private. So no cost until you actually order a hard copy.

Options include hardback, or perfect binding, in various sizes... lulu sets its price, you can then add yours on top. They will even provide a bar code.