Promotion and Distribution of physical media related to noise releases

[CosmicWeaponOfThule]

Hi

For those of us that are clueless, how are noise/PE releases actually distributed? For example If one presses a CD/CDr of their works, how exactly is it promoted? My assumption for years is that is has been similar to black metal where the products are traded back and forth between labels however I have no idea for example the names of any active companies to deal with nor where to really begin looking for them or if this is true. I usually see ads for limited cassettes or CDrs but I have again no idea where or if these items are actually distributed and circulated around. As I have several unreleased albums of my own works in various genres it might make more sense for me to find other companies to release my works, however I have no idea what the standard offer is or if the process is any different than black metal. I've zero interest in collecting money for anything but I don't want to write a bunch of random labels I've never heard off (even if the companies are accepting submissions) to get either low balled or ripped off.

Thank You

[PSYWAR LTD]

I am starting a new label and I am interested in working with you. Please email me at Psywarltd@mail.com if you are interested.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Noise distribution has become smaller and smaller and a lot of people just sell directly. Very few distributors buy with money and also costs of shipping has effected greatly the trading. For me it appears as if new guys may have difficulty to get into "network" of older labels/distributors. That, plus there is vast gap between styles. Guy who knows, likes, and usually sells ambient, may not want to give a try to random harsh noise. And other way round.
There is division of sound/style, format and visual presentation. It may not be exaggeration to think that in some cases there are NO distributors. Lets say label puts out weirdo national socialist gabber meets dungeon synth CDR, and... well, reality may be that there simply is no distribution network for such material anywhere. Even amount of listeners may be almost nonexistent, and those who listen, may not be at "noise scene" per se.

I would say the noise distribution is all gamble, all about what type of stuff you put out, and in what ways you are in contact with artists, other labels and genren in a whole. It may require year after year work to build new network, since what is being done, is barely connected to former scene.

In my own case, I do trade and distribute wide variety of stuff. It still has to fit into overall idea what I feel could interest people who buy stuff from FA. To be stuff I don't personally dislike. If stuff is something I feel I could not honestly say to buyer it is worth of your money, I prefer not to have it. Even if it would have some sort of niche audience.

This is probably the reality now. Guy who cherry picks very carefully what to take and there barely are the old school "all things available" -distributors. Then you just have to adjust into idea that most guys who run any sort of distro, may not want your stuff, and may not have even time to check samples, as label + distro they do, is something what happens after work, on their limited couple free hours in a day. I would feel fishing distributors, same rules apply like bands trying to get record deals: Don't be opportunist just mass mailing whoever, but show your dedication to work by knowning who you are contacting and why. And not bother guys with desprate mass mails, who clearly have nothing in common.

[Goat93]

There is division of sound/style, format and visual presentation. It may not be exaggeration to think that in some cases there are NO distributors. Lets say label puts out weirdo national socialist gabber meets dungeon synth CDR, and... well, reality may be that there simply is no distribution network for such material anywhere. Even amount of listeners may be almost nonexistent, and those who listen, may not be at "noise scene" per se.

Try https://barbatosprod.blogspot.com/

Actualy there are always some small Labels/Distributors, but mostly its in VM, Telegram or Instagram.
Even the "ANTI NSBM Dungeon Black Kiddy Synth" Music from Old Nick/Grime Stone Records got now a wider Range, proper Distribution and follow up Bands

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Yes, but that stuff ain't happening in "noise scene".
that what I meant with reality that you may not have distribution for stuff, that ain't exactly noise, in noise scene. If some other scene emerges from style, that is another discussion. I have my doubts about how long contemporary Dungeon Synth scene will last and relevance of physical releases of that style.

[CosmicWeaponOfThule]

It is a refreshing change to be able to ask a question on a webforum and get a helpful answer without an argument, I should probably come here more often than whenever I remember I actually make music.

Much of what Mikko was referring to about running a distro is interchangable with Black Metal as the principals are the same to an extent once one I guess looks past the ideological parts of the music as a CD is always a CD. A more understandable way to phrase my question was basically that if some Noise company presses say 100 discs, is there a potential for 100 customers or what type of general audience exists before you factor in what is on the records or who made it? I've no desire to simply market to black metal people "interested in other music" as that type of crossover generally goes nowhere outside of people you know and none of those records are ever taken seriously beyond that audience. If anything that is no different than a somebody who runs a black metal company being a vocalist and paying somebody to write an album, as yeah at the end of the day you still don't know how to play the instruments. About Barbatos specifically, about once a year or so somebody he's released write me to repress their stuff because he never actually mails anything outside of Russia and overall that company is a disgrace. I already have a label for explicit politically driven edgelord music and while that has a purpose, the highest one can hope to attain with that is some type of "exotic" status among RAC or NS listeners. For me, while I can visit the space where that type of "weirdo national socialist gabber meets dungeon synth CDR" art came from I desire other things now and if I wanted to be apart of "Power Electronic Against Communism" or other such movements, I would've done so by now. I was just curious to know if something beyond that actually existed and what it looks like.

Old Nick and others simply pay social media companies for press, which is where a lot of those sales come from. The people who buy that stuff have zero interest in anything beyond their trendy echo chamber. This

https://www.discogs.com/release/13059844-Floral-Of-Forever-Ad-Infinitum

was the one product I released with the most complaints and I guess repression, simply because the people who buys this stuff now were so disgusted by the thought of somebody who doesn't share there more youthful political views releasing something they might like despite the fact that it was recorded in Brunei and the guy who made it converted to Islam several years after it was recorded. I suspect when the companies that profit the most from this "modern dungeon synth" scene stop paying for ADs is when it will stop. I don't really see how one could be content with their sole contribution to society being limited floppy discs or something in than there 30 pcs marketed to 4000 users on Instagram but that is likely another discussion.

Anyway thanks for the insight.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

One thing to remember is, that we do live now in such a different times, that sometimes the advice is merely enlightened guess. Not pure fact.
For example the mentioned challenges in ever rising post prices is one what affects the distribution greatly. I got some friends who have mentioned that it just absolutely does not make sense anymore. Doing tape or CD, and shipping it even inside Finland.. 4 euro for one tape or CD? Something like that. So think about the old idea of self publishing tape, perhaps 4-5 euro each, then merely sending it inside Finland is that. Sending anywhere else, and trade item you got, will be higher cost than simply buying CD (or even LP!) from Satatuhatta or Freak Animal. Even if you trade in bulk, not the single copy.

So if I was to advise new good Finn noise act with self financed tape, I'd tell try to get bulk of the pressing into hands of Finn distros and they'll get it out there. Same advice wouldn't work for artist on other side of the world. Finances may be just impossible. Price of getting item, even via trade, may be impossible unless trade is bigger, with several sellable items so shipping costs, paper work, and seems at least theoretically possible to cover.

[Goat93]

Yes, but that stuff ain't happening in "noise scene".
that what I meant with reality that you may not have distribution for stuff, that ain't exactly noise, in noise scene. If some other scene emerges from style, that is another discussion. I have my doubts about how long contemporary Dungeon Synth scene will last and relevance of physical releases of that style.

Sorry, Misunderstood. Thought about generell Distribution, cause more Mailorder have a wider Variations of Genres and pair now with Dungeon Synth and Black Metal at once.
And the Ideological Borders seems to vanish slightly, too.

[Cranial Blast]

Yes, but that stuff ain't happening in "noise scene".
that what I meant with reality that you may not have distribution for stuff, that ain't exactly noise, in noise scene. If some other scene emerges from style, that is another discussion. I have my doubts about how long contemporary Dungeon Synth scene will last and relevance of physical releases of that style.

I think dungeon synth has already reached an implosion point, but at the same time, it's crossed over into other electronic and ambient styles a lot in recent years and now lots of subgenres emerging now from within all of this contemporary stuff. There has definitely been a noticable shift away from the earlier interest, that's for sure!

I think it's a healthy mindset that anytime you take in distribution that you've got to be ready to play the long game, or at least have it in your mind that, okay I'm okay if I sit on stuff for awhile. At least that's how I like to stay grounded in reality with it for me. I don't care if I sell things fast or slow, I don't see this as a "job" it's all passion driven for me and if it generates some extra supplemental income, Great! If not, well it still exciting to see people buy things and that there is an interest out there. I think everybody has their own specific ideas though of course and nothing wrong with that either.  Often I hear people have bigger issues with "space" the merchandise taking up too much space.