Noise/industrial/pe/.. in "real studio"

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Just spent last 3 days in so called real studio with one of bands I play. Not really noise, but includes also plenty of experimental elements. From analogue synth to tape manipulations and percussions etc. It had made me think about role of "real" studio and role of outsider sound engineer, who may bring something very different to result, simply by approaching the sound from entirely different angle than most of experimental artists with their home recording devices.
Now when I think of what are the bands who actually have utilized studios, brings my mind to mostly bands such as:

Con-Dom
Whitehouse
Smell & Quim
Intrinsic Actions
Bloodyminded
Testicle Hazard (yet to be release, though, so don't know how it changed their sound, if at all)
Hijokaidan
TG
Ramleh
Final Solution
... list could go on. One can perhaps point out some flaws in allowing some outsider "engineer"/"producer" to invade into your vision, but probably nobody can deny how "different" some of these acts sound. Not only because of their style, but also because of the studio sound?

This was a matter talked with Smell & Quim in upcoming Special Interests #2 interview. While many of their early works was based on access to relative cheap studio, now times changed where "everybody" has access to their own multi-track studio basically. How it changes nature of recordings, when it's not about going to do "album" like real band. And when its about knowing your equipment you work with, instead of studio engineer suggesting possibility of doing this or that. With equipment or new possibilities in studio you didn't even expect to be there, spontaneously malforming material to something different from the routine job.
As much as I praise the "new luddity" approach with minimal "primitive" gear, the ways how 1000$ microphone or wide analogue tape reel instead tiny slice of 4-track affects to the sound, may be worth of trying.
Which in these days is probably less and less. When with one day of studio time, you basically buy yourself a digital recorder with all the fancy build-in efx.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I've got a strong "home taper" ethic and have had for years. Discovering the Home Taping movement was one of the biggest and best revelations I've ever had. The independence and originality that comes from it is something I could praise forever.

But when it comes to the kind of music/Noise we like, there's some serious questions about what constitutes a "good sound" that I don't think can be answered by a professional studio. It would depend heavily on the band/individual/project. Some people will want to at least try for a more polished sound with outside influences but a lot of projects are so personal I can't imagine any advantages to them being "improved" by professional engineers.

Fuck - imagine Xenophobic Ejaculation in a swish studio with a big name producer. That's almost be worth paying for just to see what happens.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

My Unable to Abide and Creation and Space albums where both recorded in professional studios. At least partly and Creation much more so than Abide. I aim to keep recording that way by building my own similar set up instead of having to fork out a bunch of cash every time.

I see no risk of an engineer hampering personal approaches and ideas as he is just a technical slave, a monkey to press buttons and pull the right levers. A producer on the other hand is considerably more intrusive. I employ and old friend who plays the role of both but wasn't a deliberate decision. He was there as a friend with technical knowhow far superior to mine and thus became involved long before I had even released anything. He understands what I'm aiming for better than anyone else and makes things happen that could not have happened without him. Ultimately I'm the one who has final say over what goes and what doesn't so we are both producers in that respect. He's invaluable to me.

As for analogue vs digital recording SHIFT is a hybrid. Some analogue synths, guitar, bass, tape, mics, etc with old school rack samplers and a laptop with a fancy soundcard are put through a multitude of pedals and multieffects. Tracks are recorded to DAT then bounced onto a computer for editing before being transferred to the laptop. Then back out via more effects through a mixer onto the DAT for a final mix. When satisfied with the mix it then goes to the producers computer for mastering.

In the wonderful world of crude analogue recording methods we operate in I think it's a pretty complex way of recording. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Not all my recordings are done this way though. Some go straight to the DAT in realtime.

But when it comes to the kind of music/Noise we like, there's some serious questions about what constitutes a "good sound" that I don't think can be answered by a professional studio. It would depend heavily on the band/individual/project. Some people will want to at least try for a more polished sound with outside influences but a lot of projects are so personal I can't imagine any advantages to them being "improved" by professional engineers.

Fuck - imagine Xenophobic Ejaculation in a swish studio with a big name producer. That's almost be worth paying for just to see what happens.

CON-DOM has used a professional studio with more or less the same engineer for as long as anyone can remember and I doubt anyone would describe his sound as polished.

I'm sure someone like Steve Albini with his famous suitcase full of expensive mics could make a more than adequate recording for XE.

[Strömkarlen]

I don't think a "real studio" has such great impact as being able to record in a high volume friendly environment. If you record at home and basically only can work through headphones you won't get those great screaming sessions or metal banging etc.
I think what is most important when it comes to "real studio" work is getting good mastering done. Some can do this very well others like myself not at all. I have heard some records that have been mastered by Denis Blackham before he worked with them and after. The difference have been big and very good.

[Henrik III]

I guess it is fairly common to associate the use of "real" music studio on polished production and all that. Sure it probably could be obtained more easily with pro gear and sound engineering know-how rather than using broken tape decks in the basement. I think it was an interview of The Dead C where they discussed about their admired damaged lo-fi sound. It turned out that they actually used very hifi gear, Studer reel-to-reel with Neumann tube mics, to document as accurately as possible their output (rather than actually use the possibilities on overdubbing, manipulations etc.). This is how I see it also in the case of Testicle Hazard. I think most important was that we could fully trust on our engineer (a fulltime pro guy who happens to be also into noise etc.) on the technical side and if required, knowing that our input would be understood. I would say that the main benefits were 1) possibility to play as loud as possible without worrying about neigbours 2) a good array of well-functioning equipment (especially a good mixing desk and mics) 3) proper studio monitoring was a bliss 4) extra pair of ears. I think this was not only our most laidback session but by far also most efficient in terms of sheer amount of material created and I'm positive that noise quality is improved from the past studio stuff. On the other hand, I could imagine that it would have been really awkward day if we had an asshole engineer who would have been annoyed on working with such messy racket. As for working on overdubbing, manipulations etc., actually home "studio" might be better for that as there are no time/cost restrictions and all that.

Mastering (re: Denis Blackham) is a stage where things can be improved a lot. A knowledgeable mastering engineer can really bring a lot of "more" (be it "punch", "dallas" or whatever) into it also in a sense that the crap sounds less crap on crap equipment, especially for the vinyls. From my own perspective the mastering should be transparent in a sense that it doesn't alter the material too much but somehow brings out the best of it. It is sad that for many mastering means just banging the levels through the roof with the latest digital limiter.

[Strömkarlen]

From my own perspective the mastering should be transparent in a sense that it doesn't alter the material too much but somehow brings out the best of it. It is sad that for many mastering means just banging the levels through the roof with the latest digital limiter.

I couldn't agree more. You need people with knowledge and understanding for the music.

[Andrew McIntosh]

If you record at home and basically only can work through headphones you won't get those great screaming sessions or metal banging etc.

But you don't need a recording studio for that. I've done plenty of screaming in my mate's spare room where he keeps his gear. Metal banging can be recorded in basements, warehouses, etc. I've recorded plenty of this sort of thing at home. Depends on your proximity with your neighbours.

CON-DOM has used a professional studio with more or less the same engineer for as long as anyone can remember and I doubt anyone would describe his sound as polished.

Good point.

I'm sure someone like Steve Albini with his famous suitcase full of expensive mics could make a more than adequate recording for XE.

Hmmm...not so sure about that.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

It's also possible he couldn't but the number of "outsider" sound engineers I've met when playing live who've had the attitude along the lines of "fuck me this is weird but fun, let's go nuts and push it". They may have the most conventional of taste in music but with a formal or informal training in sound engineering thus possessing a knowledge on what can and what can't be done with an added open mind and sense of adventure who knows what someone like that could add. For example where someone seemingly more in touch like Albini could fail maybe someone like Bob Rock would see it as a rare chance not to be as bored as he was during the last mega budget Bon Jovi recordings.

It's all highly hypothetical of course but personally I'd welcome the opportunity to add fresh input even from the most unlikely of sources.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

This was not meant, that everybody should go to studio, and especially not about "clean sound".
I consider something like Hijokaidan "last recording album" one of the most damaging and extreme of their output. It's intense as fuck, raw as fuck, but different way. It doesn't rely on relative easiness of blown up tape levels, but simply capturing the sharpest and edgiest sound of instruments for ultimate noise.

We can see difference in Con-Dom output, where it is "just" him doing vocals over crude flanger throbbing, or something like Sermons 7", which are something that nobody else could or would do. Typically studio like approach on effects and unconventional sounds.

One could compare that when Sutcliffe Jugend did their early material on home taping, it was supreme level of violence. Already Death Mask which is studio work, hardly matches to sheer violence. Not to mention later works. They totally gained from home taping conditions, but sometimes it's the other way round.

I think this presence of "outsider" or unexpected situation,  is something what can be seen on music in general. You can look into a lot of underground music, and at least in my own ears, the best era of each genre is when albums where recorded either spontaneously in studio which didn't understand completely what they were dealing with, or rough conditions on primitive gear. As soon as there was "established" metal studio, established grind/punk studios, and people who "knew how things should be made", it seemed like... well, they didn't. I'm great worshipper of self recorded material, but I do aknowledge some change in culture & sound, when everybody suddenly is the "producer" and "engineer". In same way as every guy with photoshop is "graphic designer". Some just benefit greatly when they allow a little kick or input from "outsider" so to say. Not that everybody should.

[bitewerksMTB]

None of my recordings have ever been done at high volume. I use mixer/4-track/guitar amp for monitor.

I've been thinking about buying a digital multi-tracker w/built-in cd-r burner so I don't ahve to mix to computer anymore. I rarely master & if I do, it's just eq'ing mildly.

The collab with Ryan Bloomer is the only live rec'ing I've done at a decent volume I was happy with. It was in a small concrete room in the basement of a P.A. Equipment shop. Digital recorder & mic'd room. I'm assuming pretty good mics were used since Ryan worked at the place.

[kettu]

I've been thinking about buying a digital multi-tracker w/built-in cd-r burner so I don't ahve to mix to computer anymore. I rarely master & if I do, it's just eq'ing mildly.

I believe some of them have rca inputs so  you can use it just as an external burner to compliment your analog recorder and obviously can be used on its own. ive been eyeing boss br-900, it looked not too fancy and the salespitch says its durable and all that shit. seemes like a better deal than just buying a burner. the boss is about 400, used maybe 350euros + some decent monitors= a pile of money.  not anything I need to worry about at the moment but with those youd be set for a long time. and no more computers!!!

I would consider going to a studio if somebody paid for it but going there out of my own pocket, no way jose.
I didnt know con-dom always uses one. I dont know how I feel about that. I guess its fine since the noise is so good but im sure one can lose the personal edge

[tiny_tove]

I record everything in my bedroom and garage.
Sometime i go to studio to record vocals to not scare the shit out of neighbours.

I work with Lou Chano of TRips and Trauma and Quadraro Studio for the mastering. They have been helping a  lot with expanding dynamics and eliminate certain crackles of old tapes.
They know what they do and helped having bass frequencies boosted and refining the sound without cleaning it, rather the contrary.
There have been only two problems with samples that disappeared or too saturated elements that had to be cut lower (see the track I have completely remixed for the Filth & Violence compilation that sound very different from cd version where the wall of noise completely disappeared). The problem wasn't their fault, but me explaing myself unproperly.
I have a problem to my right ear (that sooner or later might slow down my activities) and having some healthy ears helping on that and participating to the creative process confronting is great.
I have been lucky to work with a hip hop studio that knows how to boos bass frequencies, but at the same time who also listen to industrial/noise/black metal.
This led to share and trade sounds that ended up in their releases.
BUt that is another story.

As Caligula031 I am recording everything here and in a reharsal room. No post production planned.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I've been thinking about buying a digital multi-tracker w/built-in cd-r burner so I don't ahve to mix to computer anymore. I rarely master & if I do, it's just eq'ing mildly.

You're honestly much better off getting some multi-track software for the computer (and extra memory if needed) and use your four track as an input mixer. Less money and much less fucking around. Presumably the sound card on your computer is already adequate. It seems to me that buying a separate machine for recording, when you already have the gear for recording on a computer, is throwing good money after bad.

Having written that, I don't know how things stand in your country but here there are a lot of second hand digital multi-tracks for sale, so if you do get one go cheap, second-hand first, even if you've tried out on friends' machines. The other advantage is that you can take the thing to rehearsal studios and record there if need be.