Noise happening "outside scene"

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I was listening the great Noisextra episode of In Conversation with Scott Arford (Radiosonde).

https://www.noisextra.com/2020/08/19/in-conversation-with-scott-arford-radiosonde/

We had the absolute pleasure to talk with Scott Arford and to dive into his work as Radiosonde and under his own name, as well as his part in the public access show "Fuck TV" and the legendary 7hz venue, studio, and label. In addition we talk zombie movies, static, and the importance of one particular fortune cookie. Another noise history lesson is underway, and you better take notes because there may be a pop up quiz down the line.

Back in 1998, when I organized Radiosonde to play in Finland, it basically came as part of Death Squad tour, who I was in touch with. These guys stayed week in Finland, and of course fairly vague recollections of what exactly was talked about, but Scott - as noise creator and overall unique artists was present already then. I did keep getting his stuff, but never was really in touch.
This podcast underlined well, that there are ways of doing noise/industrial, that is not restricted to.... well, like: producing tapes for the scene guys. That, I don't consider bad at all. That's what most of labels do anyways.

Podcast did evoke question of the other ways of noise activities. Like Pain Factory, or Fuck TV, where it was not predominantly targeted to "scene", but happened out there in the wider world. That could of course mean that audience is actually even smaller, but it would be probably different? Collective organizing things, creating locally unusual culture, warehouse/location where not only live and create, but also have audience that may be not all "genre people", but cross over to all sorts of folks.

Sometimes it feels, not sure if it is accurate, but as if contemporary noise would happen mostly in interaction of listener and stereosystem, not as more... ehm.. holistic way.

Is there need for noise to be more. What remains if the sort of purification process progresses. Remove performance art, remove installation, remove body action, remove study and interaction of (fringe?) culture, remove personal communication, mail art, trade, etc etc... and finally you got picture of fuzz pedal on cover of tape you bought for 10usd. And what is... that? Might be good, nevertheless. But it is like light years below the noise as life. Noise as holistic action.

One distorting thing is, that assumption that if it is not "reported online", it would not exist. Yet if someone routinely reports his actions online (mostly social media), then suddenly it seems no longer real in same way. It seems rather done as promotional act, than act of artistic creation. Yet if it goes totally "outside scene", we may well live in this void of feeling something ain't here, what should be?

[NO PART OF IT]

Most of my shows for the first 10 years were with other bands with a diverse line up.  I would be an opener for a brass band or a rock band that was loud or noisy enough.  It's surprising how much people can get into it when the context allows for them to, if they otherwise wouldn't go near it.  Playing warehouse parties and all that, it's a good and vibrant environment to play on the same bill as a synth pop duo or a metal band.  The right atmosphere would have it be prankish but also stimulating.   Of course, the nice thing about a noise scene, is that there is less gear snobs, and general narrowminded "poseur" type snottiness, and people with diverse backgrounds, just much less people.  It's interesting to think of how many noise projects have opened for rock band or metal bands, and even toured with them, or like Locrian for example, who started off doing guitar feedback and ended up on Relapse after some evolution.   It makes me think about the status of noise as a sort of ghetto for too much supply and not enough demand, but also that there are plenty of people who like noise enough, they are just happy to have a few Merzbow CDs between listening to Sonic Youth or some other regular fare.  I do wish people were more open-minded so that noise shows had more of an audience of sincere people, but it's also nice to be a bit menacing outside of the small group of know-it-alls. 

[FreakAnimalFinland]

My friend is convinced, that the core audience of harsh noise, is no more than 100 persons globally. I do not fully agree in such. It may be true that generic harsh noise tape is close to maximum sales at c.100, but that hardly means anything else than difficulty and costs of logistics and information reaching people. These days again, it actually seems that there is MORE interest than there are copies available. So many new noise releases sell out instantly, that it is almost alarming trend that one would need to hang out online 24/7 to not miss something that may be released.

One other of friends just concluded that it is amazing how good noise is, and how few people actually listen to it. Of course, noise is not "modern art" (jliat... don't catch on this, haha) so one can't fully compare it.. but still. It is mindblowing, how much people will go to museum to check out contemporary art of paint splatters and audio/visual mess, but they'd never look into "noise". Institutions would spend 100k to present exhibition of some nonsense art to population, but never would consider noise be more than splinters of pop culture that deserves no attention. Not that I'd feel noise would need it - but I feel that museums could need it to vitalize themselves!

It's surprising how much people can get into it when the context allows for them to, if they otherwise wouldn't go near it.

Live noise, especially when done well, and with proper sound and something interesting happening, seems to have some sort of immediate effect and people like it. Perhaps in same way, as they go to gallery and like odd sculpture, odd installation, but can't really pinpoint why and for sure would never have such thing at their apartment. Just something that is experienced outside the banal everyday activities. It may not require understanding, just some sort of pure experience.

In opening message I mentioned:

Is there need for noise to be more. What remains if the sort of purification process progresses. Remove performance art, remove installation, remove body action, remove study and interaction of (fringe?) culture, remove personal communication, mail art, trade, etc etc... and finally you got picture of fuzz pedal on cover of tape you bought for 10usd. And what is... that? Might be good, nevertheless. But it is like light years below the noise as life. Noise as holistic action.

Not long ago, I was visiting in modern art museum in Helsinki, and there was huge screen and sound system displaying sound/video piece. Bunch of people with microphones, rubbing mic's into their clothes, making body sounds and whatever. Starting quiet, getting more intense. There was a lot of people in big hall, watching this piece. People on video looking neat, sort of attractive and well dressed, not the greasy slobs in band shirts, hehe. So this "noise" seemed to really interest quite vast amount of people. Although I felt like - fuck - I wish these people would see Schimpfluch Gruppe do this stuff - it is also example of noise happening somewhere else than noise scene. Of course that said,  what I wanted to express with opening message, was not glorifying museum/art scene involvement. Actually quite opposite! It is hard to put in words, what would constitute as "holistic noise action".

Well, there was one amusing example. Finn noise guy posting video of free-jazz guys performing on streets in aim of disrupting right wing demonstrations. And well, if one would have to choose between "rhythm resistance" of some sort of disabled feminist drumming group and slogan yelling vs. just good ear splittering free noise on streets, I'll give my vote for the noise blasting!

[JLIAT]

There was (is?) almost a mirror image of 'The Noise Scene' of performances in bars / clubs etc., zines and merch... not only in galleries, the Tate Modern has now special spaces for such not so avant garde performance, but there is also a 'scene' in academia. I mean in Music colleges and Universities its incorporated into the syllabus of say 'performing arts'. E.G. you will have a paper presented referring to Merzbow , The Rita, Derrida, Badiou and Deleuze, with intermittent performances of Noise. I attended one @ The University of Cork hosted by Paul Hegarty, which featured amongst others Benjamin J. Heal, Weaponizing Noise: William S. Burroughs' Sound & Music Experiments, Strange Attractor and Guests present intonarumori concert, and closing the event Vomir. This was 2013 and i think Noise isn't now as much a 'thing' in these institutions, but maybe when Hegarty's new book is out?

[burdizzo]

Hegarty is one fella with a passion for noise. I remember meeting him when he played a DJ set at an art gallery in Dublin. He's got a label, and he puts on a few gigs, mainly by the 'harsh noise' types (but not exclusively). Don't know if he's so active nowadays? In fairness, it only takes the enthusiasm of one person to organise something, and it can create a 'scene', or at the least, an impression of one. Heck, I even try the same trick myself! However, he is in a better position to do it within academia. And fair play to him.

[Balor/SS1535]

One other of friends just concluded that it is amazing how good noise is, and how few people actually listen to it. Of course, noise is not "modern art" (jliat... don't catch on this, haha) so one can't fully compare it.. but still. It is mindblowing, how much people will go to museum to check out contemporary art of paint splatters and audio/visual mess, but they'd never look into "noise". Institutions would spend 100k to present exhibition of some nonsense art to population, but never would consider noise be more than splinters of pop culture that deserves no attention. Not that I'd feel noise would need it - but I feel that museums could need it to vitalize themselves!

This is interesting, and it makes me think of the self-imposed silence of museum-goers.  Art museums (and galleries to a greater or lesser extent) are often expected to be places of quiet contemplation - where no one makes a sound, and everyone steps quietly.  I would imagine that exhibitions featuring music in general (let alone noise) would totally transform the experience.

What I wonder, though, is whether playing noise at an art museum would make it more or less serious (both the noise itself, and the museum experience)?  Would it breathe life into the experience, or force people even deeper into inwardness?

[JLIAT]

This is interesting, and it makes me think of the self-imposed silence of museum-goers.  Art museums (and galleries to a greater or lesser extent) are often expected to be places of quiet contemplation - where no one makes a sound, and everyone steps quietly.  I would imagine that exhibitions featuring music in general (let alone noise) would totally transform the experience.

What I wonder, though, is whether playing noise at an art museum would make it more or less serious (both the noise itself, and the museum experience)?  Would it breathe life into the experience, or force people even deeper into inwardness?

This was the case but certainly isn't any more in many galleries. Tate Modern is very noisy (before coved) The turbine hall in particular is noisy, having exhibits such as helter skelters or sound instalations, as in other parts. The actual galleries are crowded, in the week with school parties, kids as young as 5?, and at all times tourists. And the last time we visited Paris in the Monet's @ the orangerie, despite no photo signs crowds of people were taking selfies in front of the paintings, and for some reason there was musac playing? I guess this sounds like a complaint but its not, its just that is how it is now. There are other places less crowded, like the Musée du quai Branly ethnographic museum, or the Monet museum. I think London's museums are / were crowded because they are still free, but there are still some that are not crowded like the Estorick Collection... Also the MA art shows at The Slade, Royal College, Goldsmiths, Chelsea Art School...Central St Martins et al. held around June each year are worth a visit...



Re   Hegarty  https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/clas/people/paul.hegarty

[Balor/SS1535]

This is interesting, and it makes me think of the self-imposed silence of museum-goers.  Art museums (and galleries to a greater or lesser extent) are often expected to be places of quiet contemplation - where no one makes a sound, and everyone steps quietly.  I would imagine that exhibitions featuring music in general (let alone noise) would totally transform the experience.

What I wonder, though, is whether playing noise at an art museum would make it more or less serious (both the noise itself, and the museum experience)?  Would it breathe life into the experience, or force people even deeper into inwardness?

This was the case but certainly isn't any more in many galleries. Tate Modern is very noisy (before coved) The turbine hall in particular is noisy, having exhibits such as helter skelters or sound instalations, as in other parts. The actual galleries are crowded, in the week with school parties, kids as young as 5?, and at all times tourists. And the last time we visited Paris in the Monet's @ the orangerie, despite no photo signs crowds of people were taking selfies in front of the paintings, and for some reason there was musac playing? I guess this sounds like a complaint but its not, its just that is how it is now. There are other places less crowded, like the Musée du quai Branly ethnographic museum, or the Monet museum. I think London's museums are / were crowded because they are still free, but there are still some that are not crowded like the Estorick Collection... Also the MA art shows at The Slade, Royal College, Goldsmiths, Chelsea Art School...Central St Martins et al. held around June each year are worth a visit...



Re   Hegarty  https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/clas/people/paul.hegarty

Interesting, as this has not been my experience recently (pre-covid, obviously).  I guess I have just been fortunate to go at times when there would not be school groups.  Now that you mention it, though, I do agree about free museums - they are almost always louder than ones you have to pay to get into.

[MyrtleLake]

This discussion brings to mind something that may diverge from the original pointed question instigating the thread: Max Neuhaus "Times Square."

https://www.diaart.org/visit/visit-our-locations-sites/max-neuhaus-times-square

A continuous Drone work so aptly placed that it usually has to be pointed out to those who pass it. In the middle of a chaotic noise environment and visual, sensory overload, hides a centering audio installation maintained by the venerable Dia Art Foundation. There is no plaque, no identifying note to its presence. Emanating from a large air exchange grate atop the labyrinthian Times Square subway station is a loud--though easily lost for its environs--hum. Once noticed, though, it is spectacular and transforms the experience of standing at "the crossroads of the world."

I would be curious who among the NYC noise scene has sought it out. I recommend doing so. Especially at the most busy time packed with bustling humanity. (Yes. Not so much in these pandemic times, unfortunately.)

[ddmurph]

aside: [unrelated to thread]

Hegarty is one fella with a passion for noise. I remember meeting him when he played a DJ set at an art gallery in Dublin. He's got a label, and he puts on a few gigs, mainly by the 'harsh noise' types (but not exclusively). Don't know if he's so active nowadays? In fairness, it only takes the enthusiasm of one person to organise something, and it can create a 'scene', or at the least, an impression of one. Heck, I even try the same trick myself! However, he is in a better position to do it within academia. And fair play to him.

yeah, he's still very active. he's now in nottingham. he still collaborates a lot with romain vomir (they have a project called maginot) and manages to churn out publications faster than i can put on a pair of pants. i'm not sure if the label (dotdotdot) is still active. that was run with brian o'shaugnessy (safe, pkd, etc.), who's still in cork.

edit: i just spotted that jliat linked to paul's university of nottingham page. that event in ucc (cork) mentioned above was great.


on a similar note but more related to the thread ... when paul left ucc, he gave a going away lecture that was primarily attended by staff members of the ucc french department (he was head of the french department for a number of years). i wasn't there myself but i heard about it through a bewildered acquaintance who is a lecturer in the department. apparently the lecture was mostly about noise. i can't imagine a more literal example of noise happening "outside the scene". sample (paraphrased) quote from my bewildered acquaintance: "he talked loads about some band called the new blockaders??" ... to put the quote in context, this acquaintance was also a lecturer of mine 20 years ago but all i really remember from her classes is that she talked a lot about johnny hallyday.

[WhiteWarlock]

I was listening the great Noisextra episode of In Conversation with Scott Arford (Radiosonde).

https://www.noisextra.com/2020/08/19/in-conversation-with-scott-arford-radiosonde/

Scott Arford (Radiosonde) gets my highest respect for numerous reasons.
Scott was my friend when lived/recorded/played/traveled with some batshit crazy noise girl & her dog Yogi.
Scott was around the house on the hill over the Mission looking upon the TwinPeaks/Sutro Tower.
7hz space/studio in Oakland was awesome.
Personally influenced by Scott during that time.
He taught me Cycling78 Max//MSP during the early days of NATO.
Such experiences deeply resonates with my Memory/Spiritus.
If you are somewhere reading this post...
Eye owe you some tapes for your collection.

[Cementimental]

Now that you mention it, though, I do agree about free museums - they are almost always louder than ones you have to pay to get into.

Quietest of all are the ones where you can actually buy the art

[Balor/SS1535]

Now that you mention it, though, I do agree about free museums - they are almost always louder than ones you have to pay to get into.

Quietest of all are the ones where you can actually buy the art

Very true.  I am always halfway scared to talk - even about the art - when I am in them.  Perhaps it is the self-knowledge that I am a peasant in comparison with their customers, and an awareness of the fact that I can only see the art because the owners felt kind enough to let a lowly person like myself in.

[WhiteWarlock]

Where is that thread with the standing wood gongs?
What is the actual name?
Thanks for inspiration... never heard about them before... so played with sounds...
Eye used gigantic wooden slit drums for New Ginnea in Nekro Reaper Experiment...
Korg35 MS VirusB Marshall2x12
http://n01ze.com/Trax/FreakMaker_PhsycoSpitualAvalance.mp3
hmmm
doesn't sound like a "gong" for my ears...
sounds better with volume
PsychoSpiritualAvalanche

[Balor/SS1535]

Where is that thread with the standing wood gongs?
What is the actual name?

It's this one: https://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=10998.0