Loopers

Started by Lysergikon137, September 06, 2020, 08:20:33 PM

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Lysergikon137

Did a quick search and didn't see a thread about loopers, so I figured I would start one. I saw the recent post on the "Law of the Loop" so it seems timely.

I'd been using the TC Electronics Ditto loopers since I started messing around with nontraditional music, but last year the technical issues that plagues the Ditto line became too much to reconcile so I sold what I had without looking back. I recently purchased the Pigtronix Infinity 2 Looper because it seemed like a simple and straightforward piece of equipment from a reputable company. I've really enjoyed the capabilities of the Pigtronix, namely because of the decay knob which fades the loops out after a certain number of repetitions which allows for continuously evolving overdubbing. However, I've begun to have an issue with it that I also had with the Ditto, which is an inexcusable amount of undesirable digital sounding glitches whether I'm playing through it or not. I've tried different power sources and plugged/unplugged everything. Now I'm left wondering if loopers as a general category are even a viable idea.

Obviously loops or repetition in general are a fundamental part of industrial / noise / experimental music, so I'm curious how many people utilize looper pedals for this function? If not, are there other techniques that are utilized to record a loop live that decays and allows for continuous overdubbing? Can tape loops be used in this way?

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear what others' experiences with looper pedals have been, if you use them and how, etc.

Atrophist

I have the microphone version of the Ditto, I like it fine as such, and haven't experienced the issues you mention. But generally speaking I am also questioning what's the point of loopers anyway, when samplers exist too.

JLIAT

#2
This goes back to at least Terry Riley, using two reel to reel tapes, called a "time lag accumulator". You might Google this.
Taken up by Fripp and Eno... and possible to do using a morphogene.

Also Steve Reich used loops of different lengths that produced phasing... you need to check out 'Its gonna Rain'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugqRAX7xQE&t=886s

mind blowing....

as is Come Out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouYiTiiY3vg

Time Lag accumulator...

Riley - poppy nogood...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgIT5xh1nJE

Fripp & Eno...

Swastika Girls...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjEX2idAGNA

& guitar...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6zu_d6RthY


The synth is (i think) an EMS synthi and i think he (Eno) is using the sequencer to control the VCF....




History etc.
http://www.loopers-delight.com/loop.html


http://www.loopers-delight.com/history/Loophist.html#:~:text=During%20his%20experimentation%20with%20tape%20techniques%2C%20Eno%20rediscovered,much%20introduction%20to%20the%20system%2C%20and%20without%20rehearsing.

Soloman Tump

I had a boss rc3 a couple of years back which was quite useful, and I now regret selling. 99 save slots with a huge capacity, easy to overdub with the boss stomp, and you can load / backup your loops via micro USB.

Not sure why I sold it really, I guess back then i didn't really see its full potential.

theworldisawarfilm

Quote from: Atrophist on September 06, 2020, 09:38:02 PM
But generally speaking I am also questioning what's the point of loopers anyway, when samplers exist too.

I use an EHX 360 to grab things 'on the fly' using a Send/Return on my mixer in addition to whatever may be running on my sampler (Digitakt) which generally has been prepared in advance. Has 11 memory slots as well which is convenient.

Euro Trash Bazooka

I back the RC3, although mine mysteriously died out of the blue. I did entire sets with it as a backing band, hah.

Anyway, regarding loopers, buzzing and whatnot, I jammed with a friend last night who plays drone gigs with his guitar and a pedal board. He uses a Boomerang, a Boss Giga Delay, a Strymon El Capistan, a Meris Mercury 7 and some other pedals, including distortion and whatnot. His pedals don't buzz at all, and the reason is his Cioks power supply, which is amazing. But he told me he used to have issues before he got it (especially when he also had a Strymon Time-line), which ultimately led to a necessary upgrade.

Buzzing and digital noise can be caused by "bad" power supplies meaning that if you don't use isolated power supplies, there's bound to be some unwanted noise appearing somewhere, it can be caused by mixing analog and digital pedals in the same chain, by poorly made pedals (and TC Electronics being Behringer now...), by long cables or wires picking unwanted frequencies (it also happens in homemade pedals if you don't shorten you cables enough when you do your wiring, hence the advice to the DIYers of always wiring the circuit in the box), etc. I have the same issue in my eurorack when I put some digital modules next to sensitive analog ones, which used to make some modules impossible to use do to the constant buzz. It changed when I upgraded my PSU.

Unwanted noise is most certainly a major headache.

Regarding degrading loops/delays, the Strymon Volante and El Capistan are amazing for that...
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host body

Thomann has a great value power source, 5 isolated outputs for 25 euros. Only downiside is that it has an integrated power cable. You can get two for still half the price of a more expensive brand with 8 isolated outputs.

Euro Trash Bazooka

Not all isolated power supplies really are isolated. And I blew up two Thomann's PSU's by inverting the polarity by mistake when I powered my pedals. Those things shouldn't happen, it almost fried one of my pedals too. Ultimately, you get what you pay for.
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host body

Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on September 09, 2020, 12:05:46 AM
Not all isolated power supplies really are isolated.

Care to elaborate? Never had problems with Thomann power supplies and I'd like to keep it that way, hah.

Euro Trash Bazooka

Quote from: host body on September 09, 2020, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on September 09, 2020, 12:05:46 AM
Not all isolated power supplies really are isolated.

Care to elaborate? Never had problems with Thomann power supplies and I'd like to keep it that way, hah.

Basically, if it says "isolated power supply" on the box but you can't plug a pedal with negative centre and another one with positive center at the same time on that PSU, then it's not really isolated.
DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/

host body

Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on September 10, 2020, 10:48:55 PM
Quote from: host body on September 09, 2020, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Euro Trash Bazooka on September 09, 2020, 12:05:46 AM
Not all isolated power supplies really are isolated.

Care to elaborate? Never had problems with Thomann power supplies and I'd like to keep it that way, hah.

Basically, if it says "isolated power supply" on the box but you can't plug a pedal with negative centre and another one with positive center at the same time on that PSU, then it's not really isolated.

Right, I'll keep that in mind. They've been good enough for me for so far, but I don't think I have any pedals with inverted polarity right now, just a drone synth that has it's own power cable.

latexcity

I see I'm a bit late to the party with this one but I recently got an eventide timefactor pedal and whilst the delay algorithms are incredible it also has a very underrated/under-discussed built in looper. I have been using this for ambient and drone loops since I got the pedal.

Neithan

I use Boss RC-30 and Digitech Jamman for few years now, both are really good.

JLIAT

Expensive and Eurorack but I should mention the Make Noise Morphagene. This pretty much emulates tape. Stereo – you can create loops, reverse these and play a different speeds, also make virtual 'splices' and reduce the start end points and size down to giving granular synthesis. This is all saved on an SD card so you can in principle further process on computer.

FreakAnimalFinland

loops have been absolutely crucial in most of my works. Back in the day, when loop pedal was almost unheard thing (over here), it was just using delay pedal with longest possible delay. Far from perfect and did not even work as *real* loop, but that had to do. More advance delays did have the loop function for short loop.
Eventually bought loop station, which is ok, but I don't quite get why it occasionally goes on mode of playing music. Drum beats and bass lines, with no reason.

Recent years I most often use mooer micro looper. Tiny pedal that has basically one button to use, besides tiny volume button. You you record, delete, start and stop, overdub, all from one button. Good sound, long recording time. Very few things can go wrong if you use it for simple looping things.

I do not record on computer and I use sampler only in live situation, so loop pedals are very crucial in a lot of actual noise making processes.
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