WHITE CENTIPEDE NOISE PODCAST

[WCN]

Episode 7 with Will Vangorder of WORTH out now!

https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs
https://youtu.be/X8nrprR6ERs

[Bloated Slutbag]

Man, channel burn better fucking be a thing.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

haha...
Good episode again!

Some nuggets of info:
The talk about writing connected to "noise", I guess it mainly relevant to Finns, but Will's first new noise recommendation, Nuori Veri, the man behind the project just published a book called Kurpitsankukka, that in many ways connects to themes of his audio work. Sort of autofiction, that covers also vast amount of the themes and life situations that are reflected in the noise. Although it is not book about noise. Put out by Abraxas kustannus. I recommend Finn's to grab that one.

Bizarre Uproar "lily the flesh", was sparked out of IOPS asking BU to take part of compilation tape of theme of VHS collecting & trading. Perhaps seemingly banal theme, but those who REALLY were involved, like 80's, 90's, know it was much more... BU decided to use this old quite arty self made bizarre s/m & art video, by girlfriend of infamous piercing, horror, s&m, comics, and overall underground activist Nalle Virolainen. All sorts of oddities happen in very lengthy film she was selling via xxx magazine ads. Shitting on glass with camera beneath, public obscenities, s/m sessions, all sorts of things. Anyways, session became so good, and the fact that mentioned VHS comp is STILL not out after all these years. (It does have submissions from Mania, BU (new song), Grunt, whatever.., maybe some day! Packaging is already here too, so got to wrap it together at some point). Considering that Lily the flesh tape came out already more than 10 years ago, that was the moment when F&V decided to put out the recording in its full uncut form and not wait IOPS comp.
It was also performed live 2014, in Lahti, in bar next to my record store. It is really unique in BU catalogue. There is not anything quite like it. Same goes to several recordings, though. Like MASS 10", which is really great pure harsh noise you rarely hear from BU.

[urall]

"don't say prose naggee"
check.

[Eigen Bast]

good stuff, appreciate the attempts to articulate the inarticulate. Also the dismissive attitude towards object permanence..overrated in a world going down the drain. Glad to get some context on Lily the Flesh too, that's a favorite for sure - had no idea asrar repressed it a few years ago.

[WCN]

Episode 8 out now with Jon Engman of CUSTODIAN (ex-BRODEQUIN drummer)

https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8

[absurdexposition]

Episode 8 out now with Jon Engman of CUSTODIAN (ex-BRODEQUIN drummer)

https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8
https://youtu.be/vbwVwQZtTd8

Busted out the Mania / Custodian LP the other day in preparation. What a scorcher.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Pulled that split LP out from shelves last night, but didn't have time to listen yet.

That new York show they are talking about was in march 2004. It was part of 3 dates of Grunt "tour". I was asked back then, what it would take to get Grunt to play. I don't "play for money" so to say, so question never been the finances, nor I think I was ever actually paid for at USA gigs. Nothing really is gained from "paid flights" or "fee", but what I asked for, was that there needs to be bands I want to see, and would be unlikely to see otherwise. Think of early 00's and how the hell could you see any of the bands listed on the bill? I send Force of Nature / Peter list of bands I would hope to see/play with, and everybody said they'll come. Bloodyminded, Slogun, Taint, Control, Sickness, Deathpile,... and some local bands I didn't specially request, but of course great to see. Fairly new act, like Prurient in Boston! Immaculate:grotesque, Viodre, Karlheinz, etc..

Taint show in boston was amusing. There was Prurient doing his huge amp feedback/scream History of AIDS era ripping noise. There was Bloodyminded doing perhaps the best gig of this tour. Thanks to PA being at clipping point, delivering extra grit and damage to the sound. Then Slogun doing his confrontational off-the stage thing. Keith had been watching the sets and went on stage, played 4 minute audio clip (later to be found from N12 7", titled: Pony) and that's that. No noise at all, just the one unedited sample. He said that what's he gonna do, after all these crazy live shows, and he had like two pedals and noise generator, hah... But it was great as is, just reflecting the ethos of noise in general. Not being like euro-pe/industrial, where it is almost standard to play rock'n'roll show length, 30-40 mins set of well planned thing, like album. Decision to do just sort of "victimology" type of piece, and quit, and offer no "satisfaction". It is another kind of approach, to not guarantee anything audience may expect.

Custodian, I have somehow feel as if the tape on WCN was good stuff, but otherwise, specially from CDR releases, barely recollections. Have to play the split LP this evening.

[-NRRRRK-]

Another great episode. The slide-offs into the death-metal scene of the time are interesting.

I agree with everything said about a physical release being on a whole different kind of level than just a soundcloud/bandcamp release.

On the other hand bandcamp is a great tool to create a kind of an archive. So even if the physical item is sold out/unobtainable elsewhere, the interested listener can play a release, maybe even much later than when it was released.

[urall]

Good episode eventhough i'm not that familiar with Custodian myself. Very relatable subjects (with every episode though), it's good to hear other people make the the same reflections on certain topics.

[WCN]

Episode 9 with JASON CRUMER out NOW!

https://youtu.be/wJty84kj1Ig
https://youtu.be/wJty84kj1Ig
https://youtu.be/wJty84kj1Ig

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Listened new WCN podcast with Jason Crumer in it. Liked a lot the necessity of wild rants - althought many things I do not feel the same way, always good to see strong emotions concerning noise! He keeps roaring, growling, ranting and making odd sounds, especially in the middle of the interview, haha. Really fun. He also has some quite bold statements in opposition of crunchy harsh noise..

Now playing "Let There Be Crumer" CD. It is good CD. One very striking moment is that yanking lawnmover on on beginning of 6th track. Sure the metal junk is concrete and some bells or things like that, but this one very mundane sound in middle of album, even if it seems like starting harsh noise machine, is bizarre.

For me it seems odd, that artist would be so... hmm.. "self aware"? Considering his role or importance, or whether people listen, what people think of the work etc. Generally, reality probably is, that very few thinks about any artist -really-. If CD is done, it can be liked,.. but if nothing comes out, very few are thinking what's up with this artists. No expectations whatsoever. Something that was worked hard, feeling mindblowing by the creator, might not be instantly on playlist by everybody... but perhaps end up on turntable sometime 1-10 years later. You know, I still consider "Let there be Crumer" as his new CD! I have some things that came after this, but this is like the new thing that came after the early stuff.

What was said, doesn't mean works are meaningless or unwanted. I am just surprised if people would be thinking of what particular noise artists is up to do next - if anything? Most grab records fairly randomly, when it happens that release is available on place you buy things. I got two fairly new Crumer things still on my pile of "to be listened" stuff...

Also, even if stuff may be digitally distributed, I think it is a big deal what label puts it out physically, in terms of "visibility". Popularity of Ottoman Black CD is easy to understand. That moment on Hospital prod with big pressing, is probably different than doing LP on smaller label now and having item only available in USA (I think) and no distribution...? There are still these days a lot of people, who order from their regular dealer. Bunch of items every now and then. Never buying single item overseas due various reasons. So there may be willingness to hear new Crumer, but supply and demand doesn't always meet. I am quite sure there would be bunch of Finns that would buy Crumer if it was regularly priced distro item available from Finland. Yet, if asking from label, I would assume zero direct orders for triple LP mailed to Finland?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

One curious thing, what could be matter of discussion, is that was it really the metalheads that ruined the noise?
Especially in 2000's, whole idea about "metalheads" have become so obsolete, when most of people are not really in one particular genre. A lot of people I know, may listen to metal, or even play it, but not really associate themselves as "metalheads". They are often more punk, more hardcore, more noise, who just happen to listen some metal too.

When I was listening Crumer talking what I assumed to be about post-2005 USA harsh noise crunchy stuff, single minded macronympha worship etc, noise patches, noise shirts and stuff... I was thinking are those guys "metalheads"!? My impression was that vast majority comes from hardcore & punk background? Or just overall diverse underground music culture? I rarely see noise stuff that seems to be done with metal aesthetics in almost any way.

It's more like... everything has the fused together. You take guy into metal, punk, roadburn stoner, indie music or something, and you can't really tell the difference most of the time. Patches, tattoos, long hair, short hair, merch oriented + genre music oriented, etc. all melted into same thing.

[Duncan]

Crumer one was a laugh, I enjoyed it. Despite how much he has to say and how interesting it is I don't know how much of it should be taken toooo seriously. Lots of funny contradictions from one wild statement to the next. Pretty funny toward the end of the interview too where in spite of the continuous jokes and tongue in cheek comments you can also see continued flickers of a guy quite genuinely digging the smell of his own farts.

To focus on the positive/thought provoking stuff: very interesting talk about regarding his work as this attempt to produce American music within a lineage dating back to Ives, Cage etc For all the comments we've heard about what is missing or bad or could be better about the contemporary scene I think this would be the closest to an answer: more ambition in ones personal work than to just do something that fits neatly within the 'noise music' aesthetic but is nonetheless being performed within and to that subculture. It has never made sense to me when I speak to noise heads who can't get on with ANY kind of classical avant garde or sound poetry or concrete music or free improv or whatever else because I've always found these things to be largely contained within the same vague territory in spite of their differences. This is of course reflected in a lot of media from earlier years too, Bananafish being perhaps the most concrete example.

Some interesting analysis of the sense that there was a golden era of noise that perhaps artists today are trying to get back to that idea. I'd say yes and no. I think that while there is no shortage of various ideas and aesthetics being imitated now (which always was the case, at least since I got into this shit early 2000s) I don't see it as an attempt to 'get back' to anything, more just lack of ideas or even the confidence to develop them and people being content to copy things they like. By now we're probably all aware of this and mostly in agreement but simply pointing to the fact that Masonna wasn't following a playbook back in the day, while totally accurate, is not enough of a summary or proposition now that we're several episodes into the podcast and pretty much every one has long sections of this kind of talk (which is a good thing!) While I'm sure everyone would agree they'd prefer to listen to artists with their own vision and healthy disregard of conventions, the fact remains that the relative vacuum that all this brilliant, creative early stuff was made in cannot exist anymore and artists today have a fundamentally different creative backdrop they have to work in. In my view the whole sense of 'obsession' that guides deep fandom of Noise is a double edged sword that most of us surely fall foul of. On the one hand we want more artists who do their own thing and create fractures in the status quo but alongside that we also tend to subcategorize their work as some especially weird or experimental version of 'harsh noise'. We want to have podcasts with detailed discussions of how noise is made and with what gear, we want to have 90s tapes reissued on CD every week and we want to say its amazing when Mike Connelly or Dom Fernow produce a project that exists for no other reason than to pay tribute to a hyper specific kind of early power electronics or industrial aesthetic. Surely I'm guilty of some of these things too so it's not a criticism but, I think, a fair observation. There is undoubtedly a vibrancy in noise now compared to recent years which seems largely to be due to the recent activities that this exact kind of approach produces. I prefer this to a drought for sure. I don't think there's anything besides to just argue for MORE: more discussion, more people doing things, more acknowledgement of the boring realities of listening to and making this stuff and more encouragement for anyone new that it's definitely better to do things according to what you've got rather than what you can get! I think that the talk around all this stuff will have value in years to come more so than in the weeks/months it actually happens.

Finally and semi on that note, I did enjoy the way Crumer has this sense of his own body of work. He can talk about the ideas behind it, he can talk about what he was trying to get at and why it is different to what comes before and after. He acknowledges bits that don't work as well as bits that do and how his vision for the work may have changed over time. I very much relate to the idea that in using his own name he has to own everything he has ever tried and failed at as part of the creative project.  Is it just me or is it exceedingly rare to see a self named artist 'retire' the name and switch to a pseudonym while maintaining the idea that the overall thrust of the work will be the same thing?!

Certainly a lot to chew on overall. Personally I have never once connected with any Crumer material despite constant encouragement from all over to get into it. I will have to make a concerted effort to listen to some stuff now and no doubt I'll realise I was sleeping on some good material. This was definitely the case with the Worth episode where, even though I had heard a little and liked it - knowing I should properly investigate someday, it took the podcast to really get me digging deep and subsequently realise just quite how firmly that stuff lives in the kind of noise world I go nuts for. Always a pleasure.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

By now we're probably all aware of this and mostly in agreement but simply pointing to the fact that Masonna wasn't following a playbook back in the day, while totally accurate, is not enough of a summary or proposition now that we're several episodes into the podcast and pretty much every one has long sections of this kind of talk (which is a good thing!) While I'm sure everyone would agree they'd prefer to listen to artists with their own vision and healthy disregard of conventions, the fact remains that the relative vacuum that all this brilliant, creative early stuff was made in cannot exist anymore and artists today have a fundamentally different creative backdrop they have to work in.

There is old Bananafish magazine with Jojo Hiroshige interview in it, where Jojo says about Masonna, that it is basically Whitehouse copycat, and unless Masonna can re-invent his style, it won't be interesting for long time. Comment is of course a bit strange, when there is barely resemblance of the two, but one can also understand his logic.

I would say that also in what is called "golden era of noise", there was always lots of people who felt as if everybody is merely kicking dead horse. Like declarations of industrial music being dead, done already in 1983 industrial culture handbook. And that by mid 80's it was all reduced from revolutionary experimentation into a subculture & genre music.

( Edit: That said, of course I don't meant situation, motivations and conditions would be the "always the same". Of course now situation is vastly more supportive for producing commodities or replicating genre music than ever before. Nevertheless, I would say there are so many unique artists, that being supportive for them and being interested to discover what they do, can be rewarding. )

I think technology to create sound is perhaps more to blame, than strong influence. When noise was made with "what you got", it became different, even if you tried to be something in particular. Lets say, try to copy Whitehouse without synth and efx boxes. If all you got is microphone and sheet of metal and shortwave radio, it ain't gonna sound like Whitehouse.
Now when you got literally "noise gear" to make noise, I am not surprised that sub-genre mentality can flourish, when you have the means to replicate things exactly how they are done by others. You can buy exact same pedals as you know is used in your favorite HWN release and replicate that.