Is noise becoming a safe space?

[chryptusrecords]

But we now live in the age where its fashionable to be Mary Whitehouse.

NOW we live in that age? Not when the actual Mary Whitehouse was alive?

[Atrophist]

If noise becomes fragmented into safe and non safe spaces then it becomes like everything else - echo Chambers for what you like and avoidance of what you don't like.

It already is like that. Arguably always has been, or at least for a very long time.

But don't worry about it. Noise isn't like everything else. In fact, nothing is like everything else.

[Leewar]

But we now live in the age where its fashionable to be Mary Whitehouse.

NOW we live in that age? Not when the actual Mary Whitehouse was alive?

In the days when she was alive most people mocked or just ignored her ideas of censorship.

Now we have teenagers, who instead of seeking out extremities, start out by telling others what they should or shouldnt be listening to incase its 'questionable'.

[eraciator]

But we now live in the age where its fashionable to be Mary Whitehouse.

NOW we live in that age? Not when the actual Mary Whitehouse was alive?

In the days when she was alive most people mocked or just ignored her ideas of censorship.

Now we have teenagers, who instead of seeking out extremities, start out by telling others what they should or shouldnt be listening to incase its 'questionable'.

I'm sorry but this is absolute bollocks.

Mary Whitehouse and the National Viewers and Listeners Association wielded real political power which meant that many things were extremely difficult to get hold of in the 70s and 80s in the UK that were readily available in more progressive European countries.

What happens now is that people have access to vast swathes of culture at the click of a button.

But, you know, sorry if a young person took a dislike to some Nazi noise project and posted about it on Tumblr or whatever!

[W.K.]

What is a non-safe space?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

What is a non-safe space?

It feels as if this topic already years ago went in so many circles, it became obsolete? I think the media is still dragging behind and giving it some sort of momentum as if topic mattered in places and cultures where it does not matter.

It seems as if current consensus was that it is problematic that bunch of white people are explaining and getting angry behalf of "minorities". Telling what hurts and offends, while those mentioned people, lets say in this case for example women in noise, may be annoyed that they are treated as infants, by default, instead of as grown up women who actually do manage to deal with so called non-safe space, that is life.

[Leewar]

But we now live in the age where its fashionable to be Mary Whitehouse.

NOW we live in that age? Not when the actual Mary Whitehouse was alive?

In the days when she was alive most people mocked or just ignored her ideas of censorship.

Now we have teenagers, who instead of seeking out extremities, start out by telling others what they should or shouldnt be listening to incase its 'questionable'.

I'm sorry but this is absolute bollocks.

Mary Whitehouse and the National Viewers and Listeners Association wielded real political power which meant that many things were extremely difficult to get hold of in the 70s and 80s in the UK that were readily available in more progressive European countries.

What happens now is that people have access to vast swathes of culture at the click of a button.

But, you know, sorry if a young person took a dislike to some Nazi noise project and posted about it on Tumblr or whatever!

I wouldnt agree, some 'things' where still easy to get if you looked in the right places, for instance certain kinds of porn could quite easily be obtained from small ads in the back of 'regular' porn magazines sold in the high street. She achieved nothing really except amusing people by complaining about programmes that continued to be shown on TV, a few of which deliberately baited her even more.

You could still walk into a record shop and buy pretty much anything, or go and see your favourite 'nazi' band in concert.


But thanks for proving my point somewhat with your last line.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Perhaps the idea that there is a space, that is safe, for noise, starts with the recognition that there really is a space, for noise. A space with clear definition, lines, contours. With an inside and an outside. If such a space can have a generally agreed definition, then it can also be "protected" by those who may feel obliged to do the protecting. This can have all kinds of knock-on effects, political and otherwise. But objectively speaking, noise never gave a shit.

[Goat93]

But, you know, sorry if a young person took a dislike to some Nazi noise project and posted about it on Tumblr or whatever!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture

don't see any Nazi Noise here

[Zeno Marx]

Seems like we're now venturing into territory that explains why Scream & Writhe Forum is good and active.  Is there really a need for another forum?  Appears so.  Sounds a little dramatic to be bothered that people seek vibes...uh...that they like.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Yes, and this is absolutely nothing new. I must have mentioned several times, but already back in the day with Chondritic/Troniks forum, when it originally was all just one discussion, there had to be division made for NOISE and POWER ELECTRONICS, so people can choose if they do not want to see things that are common in realms of PE. When all discussions were in one section, you could basically count on that any time there was discussions about artists with little more spicy content, lots of people were always trolling with all sorts of nonsense.
When PE and Noise was in separate sections, it became vastly better for... everybody, I guess? This was already like 15 years ago or more.
While Special Interests favors the 80's/90's style of "everything goes", where all things co-exists, it is clear that such mentality is quite old school these days. If the 2000's sub-genre and community ideals works for some, its good that there are places for that type of people. To me it seems clear that vast majority of noise/PE folks are not at forums, and there is pretty decent discussions even at some social media groups. Noise Playing Now (fb) being one example. If you are using mostly your phone, forums like SI are pretty heavy to use and not enough visual.

One would hope S&W forum keeps going and improving. It is hard to say, since anyone who has followed the lifespan of music forums, there is that certain way it goes. Starting from scratch, you can always start new Hijokaidan or new gear topic, but after some years, when you got forum with multiple page topic of artists, it is harder for new guys who join forum to bring something valuable what hasn't already been said. After 10 pages of Merzbow talk, it ain't that good to post "recommend me some good Merzbow-noise!!" message what you can do in early stages of forum/topic. Already with S&W we could see that lots of people joined, and then... not posting at all. To create lively forum, what it really needs is posters, and also people who know things beyond the obvious, so there are some nuggets of info or insight why lurkers wants to return.

[eraciator]

I wouldnt agree, some 'things' where still easy to get if you looked in the right places, for instance certain kinds of porn could quite easily be obtained from small ads in the back of 'regular' porn magazines sold in the high street. She achieved nothing really except amusing people by complaining about programmes that continued to be shown on TV, a few of which deliberately baited her even more.

You could still walk into a record shop and buy pretty much anything, or go and see your favourite 'nazi' band in concert.

But thanks for proving my point somewhat with your last line.

Well maybe you were luckier, richer or better connected than me in the 1980s or we have different tastes, I dunno. I guess posh people have always been able to fulfil their desires with impunity and without the Obscene Publications Squad pigs taking an interest in them.

I do struggle with the idea that it's somehow harder to get hold of extreme stuff now though.  And I am mystified as to how teenagers on tumblr these days have more power than an organised political force with the backing of the churches in the pre-internet age.

[eraciator]

But, you know, sorry if a young person took a dislike to some Nazi noise project and posted about it on Tumblr or whatever!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture

don't see any Nazi Noise here

Quite.

[Verkhaner]

It should be pretty obvious that the poster meant "safe space" as in: "works within the framework of modern day morals and 'political correctness' " and NOT as in: "I may get attacked at a concert"...

Personally, I draw the line when it comes to mainstream modern day buzzwords, witch hunts and thought bans. Despite not being active as long as many others in the "scene" (?), I always liked the idea that pretty much anyone could express his or her thoughts. Let's take Barzel, Herukrat, Koufar and Brethren - I agree with none of the ideologies behind the projects, but I am glad they all exist. Fringe people expressing fringe opinions freely - that's what I saw as underground culture.

However, I mostly see people becoming safer and safer due to the very touchy current day climate and an audience that seems to live pretty strictly to the laws of the political correctness of the Western hemisphere of post- 2020. That has nothing to do with anarchic outsider art whatsoever and neither do the same tiring buzzwords and "hypes" that are proclaimed in any school, university and mass media outlet. That is not only something I personally disagree with, but also something that goes strictly against my own motivation of becoming a consumer of such art. It used to be about counter culture to me, nowadays I see mainstream culture more than anything else. It used to be about strong individuals and ideas, now it's about "don't say the wrong thing, for god's sake". That may be all in my head, though.

Of course, I have no ill will to anyone doing his thing, I just personally lose interest in such work, which just leads me to stop buying it. That's the alpha and omega of the discussion regarding my personal habits, really.

[Zeno Marx]

Not the same demographic being attracted to noise?  The number of people now interested, so you're bound to see different backgrounds and reasons to be interested?  When noise became the new punk rock, ala No Fun Fests and more touring, that felt like a pivot point.  No judgment or slight.  From afar, it felt like a new era.