Video: People Who Do Noise

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I guess it is postmodernist plague, where nothing has value and everything is relative. So people will just swallow the idea that everybody can be everything, and everything is everything. And nothing means anything anymore. Just give up in front of potential danger of brainwork and surrender in front of pranks.

The lame doodle is masterpiece, sound of distortion box is great noise album, etc.... But you can make critical evaluation = opinion based on something beyond mere gut feeling. You can value piece of creativity. If the artist or his followers can't take criticism, it's whole another issue.
Simple proof could be, that talking about book reference: When editor compiled book of avantgarde art - he makes the choices. He values what is worth of inclusion and what is not. Which works are good and which are shit. It would be utterly strange idea that you can't value avantgarde art!? Wouldn't this mean, every book is just compilation of whatever shit someone happened to make? But no. There is most often editor who compiles the essential and leaves out the shit. He/she is probably not afraid to make judgement or hide under idea that "everything is subjective", "nothing has value"... 

This doesn't remove the possibility, that someone will always actually prefer the junk and gutter-trash, instead of "remarkable art", hah... Both trash and art is not beyond possibilities of finding value.

Often, the body of work, is important factor defining value. The doodle or black square itself may not have value, but its context in whole body of work and legacy of artist. His meaning in his time or in future.
In this angle, for example some works of David Jackman, are utterly useless. But those recordings in his discography together with other works create what IS Jackman.
One torn newspaper page with muddy footprint found from street is not remarkable art. But artistic intent, concept stretched beyond the mundane, may become so if it is well done. How can it be "well done", someone asks? I'd rather not take this discussion here. It may happen in "art section" if someone is into concept art?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

You wrote about many problems with those knowledge about modern art struggles for many years. You write about postmodernist plague but, frankly speaking, I don't understand term POSTMODERNISM, for me this is empty term... nevermind...Only I would like to write that this isn't any plague, and I don't see any problem in present time. This is the price of freedom... I don't see in that any problem because of I am libertine and freedom is for me the main value? I don't know... Anyway, I like this "postmodernist" time, as you called, because everybody is able to contact with art, feel it in its, specfic way without academic knowledge, cultural or society cannons. Problem is only with recipients, their consciuos and purposes (shortly, with their so called souls). I ma happy that everybody can create art and every work is able to influence to other people, even in situation, when someone (maybe even smarter, with bigger knowledge) thinks that this work is total shit. Isn't it wonderful?

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

But all in all, when you compared Portland noise doc vs. Cleveland noise doc, the first one is something I would guess could go well for film festival for people looking for curiosities, while latter would be more of noise fan audience. It is my impression. First one covers local village weirdos, doing strange stuff in relatively compact editing and short format. Latter is long and pretty detailed with issues I doubt would be high interest of non-noise viewer. With longer pieces of raw noise footage which would probably bore out people who aren't into the type of art.

I can say with much certainty that had I arrived as a total outsider and seen the Portland DVD I would probably have walked away from the whole genre in disgust. Had I on the other hand seen the Cleveland DVD I would have been very puzzled and aching to find out more. Shouldn't this be obvious to people? Are people really that fucking stupid that they would choose blatant wannabees over people with an apparent urgency in their expression? I guess they are which is why my outlook on humanity is sp pessimistic.

Aaron and Stephen, here's a challenge for you. Why not bring a camera during your trip to Europe and try and capture some of the people you meet? I understand the task would probably be impossible on several different levels and would add a massive stress load on an already taxing trip. BUT, whatever you would manage to capture during you short stay, even if it would give a far from complete overview, would probably be more than worthwhile. If there are anyone I have faith in doing a good job of this it's you two.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

When Death Squad was touring europe in 1998, they filmed many interviews - also in Finland. I'm pretty glad none of that was published, hah! In theory, international noise document would be interesting, BUT, also a huge challenge. The more people you involved, the less time they will have on document. Thinking 90 minutes document with live footage, and interviews, where people have mere 5 minutes if that, to talk. How can it sum up even key elements of project?
Therefore I do like the more "limited" approach. Even documenting specific label-rosters or like now, specific countries or cities. How good it could be if there would be:
Broken Flag document
Tesco Organization document
Cold Meat document
Come Organization document
etc etc.
Some of these things are really the past - so now it would be quite easy to take a look to something that already took very clear form and in some cases basically just distant history. There would be enough limited range of targets to interview, but possibly enough substance and interesting matters when focusing to the glory days.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

All what you say is very clear to me and the suggestion was about one quarter serious. Actually it was more to say that if there is anyone I would trust to do a good job of something like this it would be Aaron and Stephen. They have proved themselves very capable.

A big all encompassing documentary would of course be impossible. Under those circumstances it would be more a case of "The People We Met During Our Trip To Europe". And here I am laying it all out for them. I should just shut the fuck up!

[murderous_vision]

Thanks for the kind words! It is actually my plan to document the tour. At least for personal reasons. When I was in Europe in 2006 I wanted to document, but fucking airline broke my camera. A tough dick to swallow that was...

[linxtyx]

You wrote about many problems with those knowledge about modern art struggles for many years. You write about postmodernist plague but, frankly speaking, I don't understand term POSTMODERNISM, for me this is empty term... nevermind...

This can go to really serious academic debate, but to say long short, people who say that postmodernism is an empty term proves that postmodernism is almost finished his establishing process in the society. It is sad, because it is serious and cruel castration of art (including music, painting ect.) and philosophy. You're speaking about freedom, postmodernist philosophers and people who where bringing the flag of ultimate freedom started destroying value itself. Fuck this. Fuck this kind of freedom. Postmodernist idea is going against human itself and it's paradox, because this idea was created by the human being. Intoxicating masses of "open minded people" with this idea won't change nature of human. It will only bring frustration in every section of life we still enjoy..

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Thanks for the kind words!

You're welcome chief. Credit given where it's due.

There's a sitcom called Portlandia which captures the characters very well. Based on the few youtube clips I've seen the problem is that it doesn't go far enough in ripping the shit out of them. This clip will give you all an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVmq9dq6Nsg

Pricelsss quote:

"I gave up clowning years ago"

"Well in Portland you don't have to"

The people who made and featured in PWDN must have had that in mind throughout. The clowning never ends.

I picture a sitcom in Cleveland to be like Eraserhead.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

This can go to really serious academic debate, but to say long short, people who say that postmodernism is an empty term proves that postmodernism is almost finished his establishing process in the society. It is sad, because it is serious and cruel castration of art (including music, painting ect.) and philosophy. You're speaking about freedom, postmodernist philosophers and people who where bringing the flag of ultimate freedom started destroying value itself. Fuck this. Fuck this kind of freedom. Postmodernist idea is going against human itself and it's paradox, because this idea was created by the human being. Intoxicating masses of "open minded people" with this idea won't change nature of human. It will only bring frustration in every section of life we still enjoy..

I am affraid that you didn't understand my words well. I meant that I don't understand this term, and nothing means for me. Not because it finished his establishing process already but because I have never considered it as serious and real phonomena in art or in culture. Besides, I don't understand how philosophers or people are able to destroy any values... this is something like populistic, sick demagogy.
You wrote that "open minded people" will not change nature of human. Sorry, but what is connection between nature of human and undestroyed values? Could you mention that values?

[linxtyx]

This can go to really serious academic debate, but to say long short, people who say that postmodernism is an empty term proves that postmodernism is almost finished his establishing process in the society. It is sad, because it is serious and cruel castration of art (including music, painting ect.) and philosophy. You're speaking about freedom, postmodernist philosophers and people who where bringing the flag of ultimate freedom started destroying value itself. Fuck this. Fuck this kind of freedom. Postmodernist idea is going against human itself and it's paradox, because this idea was created by the human being. Intoxicating masses of "open minded people" with this idea won't change nature of human. It will only bring frustration in every section of life we still enjoy..

I am affraid that you didn't understand my words well. I meant that I don't understand this term, and nothing means for me. Not because it finished his establishing process already but because I have never considered it as serious and real phonomena in art or in culture. Besides, I don't understand how philosophers or people are able to destroy any values... this is something like populistic, sick demagogy.
You wrote that "open minded people" will not change nature of human. Sorry, but what is connection between nature of human and undestroyed values? Could you mention that values?

Ah..then it's pointless to discuss further if you said that postmodernism is empty term in that way. I understood it wrong.
But talking about destroying values it's simple, when people starting look to the value itself as not worth while or changes values into totally speculative and "open" abstractions the value itself is starting to lose it's meaning as a value. And for me your words that you can't understand how people/philosophers (it's the same in some kind of why, ain't it?...) can destroy value sounds like lack of knowledge..(but it's not time for insulting each other) I would ask (and answer in the same way) - then who else can destroy value?
In earlier social stages values have been changing - it's more then normal, but in this stage the continent of value reached the stage where the continent is destroying the value. Like cancer eating you from the inside for an example. As Mikko mentioned "I guess it is postmodernist plague, where nothing has value and everything is relative. So people will just swallow the idea that everybody can be everything, and everything is everything. And nothing means anything anymore." This is the idea today brought into the social arena, for an example, by the neo-communist movements. The idea of total freedom and that everything is possible, everyone can be anyone. When we put this continent into the term of value, value itself is destroyed, because value is what is not relative and is something that is not seen through the glass of compromise. And the main point I'm going to here is that this point of view from postmodernistic ideological leaders is intoxicating every section of art, slowly, but noticeably. This is going to the total destruction of subject and individuality.
Nature of human being and destruction of value? Value is what is implicated in the nature of human being, and acceptance of this kind point of view will bring only frustration into life of human. Next really complicated question would be - why this is happening? I don't have answer to this..

p.s. the idea that everything is relative sounds as bloody schizophrenic demagogy for me..

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

And for me your words that you can't understand how people/philosophers (it's the same in some kind of why, ain't it?...) can destroy value sounds like lack of knowledge..

And this is the reason why I would like to talk with you about that. I have no so bigger knowledge as you and I hope to know something from people who are smarter than me.

First of all, if we discuss about values we will show what kind values are considering. I remind you that we discussed about art/music, and values which are related to this sphere. Please, tell me, what kind of values definitely are destroying by so called postmodernist philosophers or open-minded people?

Inasmuch as you wrote that "when people starting look to the value itself as not worth while or changes values into totally speculative and "open" abstractions the value itself is starting to lose it's meaning as a value", please, tell me where from and what tools you used, or somebody else, to find that when people think about values (considering their worth) the value itself is starting to lose it's meaning as a value?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

And the most important question.
Inasmuch as you are opponent to postmodernism in art/culture, if you are opponent against avant-garde? I think that you should be because it writes that Avant-garde is source of postmodernism. It exactly avant-garde undermined all values in art and culture. How you, as composer/artist can use noise/power electronics (chiildren of avantgarde) to fight with all who don't respect so called "natural human values"? don't you use classic music, rock or folk? Where is your consequence?

[linxtyx]

And for me your words that you can't understand how people/philosophers (it's the same in some kind of why, ain't it?...) can destroy value sounds like lack of knowledge..

And this is the reason why I would like to talk with you about that. I have no so bigger knowledge as you and I hope to know something from people who are smarter than me.

First of all, if we discuss about values we will show what kind values are considering. I remind you that we discussed about art/music, and values which are related to this sphere. Please, tell me, what kind of values definitely are destroying by so called postmodernist philosophers or open-minded people?

Inasmuch as you wrote that "when people starting look to the value itself as not worth while or changes values into totally speculative and "open" abstractions the value itself is starting to lose it's meaning as a value", please, tell me where from and what tools you used, or somebody else, to find that when people think about values (considering their worth) the value itself is starting to lose it's meaning as a value?

And the most important question.
Inasmuch as you are opponent to postmodernism in art/culture, if you are opponent against avant-garde? I think that you should be because it writes that Avant-garde is source of postmodernism. It exactly avant-garde undermined all values in art and culture. How you, as composer/artist can use noise/power electronics (chiildren of avantgarde) to fight with all who don't respect so called "natural human values"? don't you use classic music, rock or folk? Where is your consequence?

First of all, I'm looking into the big picture, not talking about particular values, but more into the human relations with the value itself. But if you need particular examples so bad, I would name (talking about industrial scene in the widest sense) : 1. Individual is respect for what he is doing (because everything is relative and everyone can do anything) 2. Because of that point of view and actions scene is mutating in the way I don't like or adore (everything what I say is totally subjective and has to be viewed like that all the time).  And yes, look : when a man starts to looks into the value as pointless thing isn't this a destruction of a value? You loose a need to have any values, because, as I've already mentioned, everything is relative, no one wants to crack their brain, they just feel the need to do something (that's fine), but they're starting to lose the point of what they're doing and as a result shit loads of shitty shit is being produced every day (this topic has been discussed enough times, but I have to mention this, because it has connection to what I'm saying). But as I mentioned the value is a part of human being, so it flows from this that human can never ever erase value as it is from his conscious life; discomfort that he feels when he accepts anti-value "politics" is the only thing that still makes me believe everything can turn to the better track.
And your argument about avant-garde is totally pointless, because avant-garde is the substance that's progressing all the time, it's not some kind of system as postmodernism is - it's just something that's ahead of what is now. Postmodernism is an avant-garde of today society, art world, it even (as we talking about that) starts to come into industrial scene. What was a source of postmodernism already ain't avant-garde. Power electronics was avant-garde, 25-30 (approx.) years ago. Now, I would say, what we still have nice and good in the scene is plain establishment and I adore it. I'm going against what this scene is becoming. Of course it's kinda hard to understand that I'm saying this as I'm a newcomer comparing to the other guys, but I think I just came into this at the good time to still catch the wind of changes and I didn't like it.
And please don't twist my words. Not natural human values, but value itself as a natural symptom of human consciousness. 
I think the plainest and simplest digest to what I say would be  "respect your roots, respect what you're doing and don't adore progress just because it's progress".

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

It's gone from me being accused of being anti people younger than myself to a debate over postmodernism. Can we just agree that this documentary sucks?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

First of all, I'm looking into the big picture, not talking about particular values, but more into the human relations with the value itself. 1. Individual is respect for what he is doing (because everything is relative and everyone can do anything) 2. Because of that point of view and actions scene is mutating in the way I don't like or adore (everything what I say is totally subjective and has to be viewed like that all the time).

Ok, so who or where anybody don't respect what he is doing? Who don't respect this value? CROWLEY? I remind you that there are few interpretations CROWLEY's concept. Most people (not me) inteprets "Liber AL vel Legis-The Law is for All"  different than you. Official interpretation is all freedom but only there where we don't limit freedom other person". Respect for what we are doing is the main value libertine world.
I don't understand your second "value". Who said or wrote that his subjective opinions MUST be viewed all the time? For me this isn't any value... Only two?

And yes, look : when a man starts to looks into the value as pointless thing isn't this a destruction of a value

Exactly! Doubt is one of the main value in life of the men. If anybody boubts in god (his exist) for example this doesn't mean that this man destroys god or his belief in it. I say more, this doubt MAY strenghten his value. Of course may destroy too but this is unknown. We can not take certainty that doubt MUST destroy anything.

What was a source of postmodernism already ain't avant-garde. Power electronics was avant-garde, 25-30 (approx.) years ago. Now, I would say, what we still have nice and good in the scene is plain establishment and I adore it.

Power electronics have never been an avant-garde, it was and is one of the consequences of avant-garde. I wrote about roots  for postmodernism, and no doubt, avantgarde movements were direct reason appearing so called postmodernism. Where are you see plain establishment? In power electronics? :) What about libertines in this scene of power electronics? Do you share with them their views? Even if we consider power electronics as genre which doesn't have any relations with avantgarde and so called postmodernism, what do you say about artists from this scene who are nihilists?