lyrics

[RG]

Recently I've gotten into discussions with several different friends on different occasions about the importance of lyrics and their role in music. For me, lyrics are and will always be completely secondary to the music. Honestly, I could give a shit about most lyrics. They can be important, but first and foremost is the music and sounds. You might have amazing lyrics but if the music sucks, the whole package suffers. On the other hand, you can have mediocre lyrics but if the music is great it doesn't really matter. What's more important than the lyrics is the actual sound of the vocalist, their delivery and how their voice compliments the music. One of the people I discussed this with is primarily a fan of singer/songwriter folky stuff from the 60s, so for him the lyrics are very important and he didn't see it the same way I do. I guess it could depend on whatever given genres are your listening choice but in general, regardless of what I'm listening to, I ignore the lyrics and just care more about how the vocals sound.

Thoughts on this? Does it differ for you depending on what you're listening to?

[jangbi08]

I have basically the same view (maybe because my English is not that perfect to catch all the screams and growls)
but I think it's different in P.E . Lyrics in PE gives it 'filth'. Good lyrics build up a somewhat oppressive power, an aura to the recording.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

For me, lyrics are and will always be completely secondary to the music. Honestly, I could give a shit about most lyrics. They can be important, but first and foremost is the music and sounds.

Generally speaking I share your opinion, I try to focus only for music and usually I value only this one. But, especially in PE, where words are very important and human voice is such fundamental like electronics, I focus on lyrics too, although my English is very poor. Because of that I like when artists place their lyrics (or manifestos) in booklet. For example I appreciate very much lyrics of WHITEHOUSE, especially from 1990--2000's which I like much more than their earlier. I guess these lyrics are more complicated (as their music which I like more too), richer in words and meanings (for example excellent work "Just Like A Cunt", the last whispered words in contrary to the main part which can be understood on two ways). Their earlier words are primitive (what is a value too) but for me too much obvious.

[Levas]

Lyrics and especially good lyrics adds yet another dimension to the sound. Quality of vocal delivery and quality of sound and so on is sort of subjective thing i think.

[acsenger]

I have the same opinion: I pretty much don't care about lyrics at all. I also agree that this surely depends on what kind of music one likes: when I started listening to music, I liked Iron Maiden, Metallica and a few other bands like that where you can understand the lyrics, but being a non-native English speaker, it didn't matter to me what the lyrics were. Since then I've mostly listened to stuff that either doesn't have vocals (usually I'm not a fan of vocals) like noise or they're meant to be a part of the general sound (death metal, black metal, grind). Even with music  that has clear vocals (like prog rock, Nick Drake etc.), I don't listen to the actual content on purpose, just the way the voice sounds.
Just the other week I was listening to Experimental Products with my girlfriend and she said to turn it off cause she thought the lyrics were terrible (granted, she didn't like the music very much either). I didn't even notice that. But she likes grunge, The Cure, Blur etc. where lyrics I suppose are important (to some anyway).
There have already been some posts here regarding a question I've had for some time: I don't know PE almost at all and want to explore it, but I wonder whether my indifference towards lyrics will mean I won't "get" PE to a certain/large extent? I know Whitehouse and I like them, but again, I don't really consciously listen to what they're ranting about. I recently got a couple Slogun CDs and for a change I was listening to the vocals because I know one of his subject matters is serial killers, a topic I'm also interested in; but even though the lyrics were OK (although, on these albums, they didn't really deal with this subject), they didn't make up for the music that was honestly a little boring for me. I've only listened to them a couple times, so obviously I have more listening to do, but nevertheless I wonder if the only way to really appreciate PE is if you can enjoy the atmosphere the lyrics evoke? I'd be interested to read opinions on this -- perhaps there are others here with the same experience as me?

[tiny_tove]

often -not always - good lyrics give substance to empty vessels.
I don't care about agreeing with lyrics, but when well written they add a further dimension to the whole work, even when they are simple, or just one sentence repeated over and over again.

[Reprobate]

For me, it just depends on what kind of music I'm listening to/participating in. For what I do, everything is based on the lyrics. If I'm listening to power electronics, then it'd make sense for there to be lyrics, otherwise, couldn't it just be called harsh noise/industrial? Obviously, while it's sadly not always the case, lyrics with hip-hop should be important. On the other spectrum, you have classical/orchestral/jazz/etc., which definitely don't need lyrics/vocals to be powerful.

[icepick method]

Yea, PE without lyrics is like HipHop without lyrics. Though there's also the middleground where vocals are used as an instrument and it doesn't always matter what's being said. In singing where it's used as a melodic element or hiphop and bands like dissecting table where it's used as a percussive instrument. Though i still can't listen to non-english hiphop. For me it is all about what's being said, the cleverness of the rhymes and wordplay. With DT it doesn't matter at all, it's all screamed jibberish to me peppered with an english word here and there, usually the song title or something.

Vocal delivery is just as important to me in PE as what's being said, Whitehouse=believable, Slogun=not so much. I just don't buy it. his voice sorta trails off even before he's finished each angsty proclamation.

[ARKHE]

PE without lyrics = not PE, isn't that the standard definition? The vocal part is essential. Well crafted lyrics printed in a booklet/on insert isn't a necessity, but of course, if they are well written and want to deliver something particular, it would be counterproductive not to print them and just discard them. Take CON-DOM or IRM as examples, where what is being said is of great importance - but of course, in the end it all comes down to how it is delivered, though IRM without Bladh's texts would be a much weaker experience (had the vocals been inaudible - luckily they aren't). INSTITUT for example, can't remember that any lyrics are printed on the cds? That 2x7" have a lyric insert though. But you get the gist of what Lirim is shouting about. Even if you don't hear exactly every phrasing, the delivery makes it clear what it's about. Again, pretty easily interpretable vocals. SHIFT on the other hand, most of the time, especially on older releases, you mostly hear a distorted echoing rumble that resemble vocal patterns. You get what it's about, but judging from the Creation / Space lp, you'd wish he printed his lyrics more often, as they'd surely enhance the experience.
Poorly written lyrics (poor not because of poor English skills, but artistically weak/bland/uninspired) drags shit down and shouldn't be printed, on the other hand.

The question of language comes in here as well. Both Finnish and Swedish are extremely small languages. How much is lost for foreign listeners when listening to the Petturien Ruoli (sic) album? I realized I had very little idea of what it actually was about before fetching my lexicon to translate the song titles. How about ALFARMANIA? Don't think many Swedes hear the lyrics there either though, but the titles gives as much context as the lyrics.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

I have always highly appreciated good lyrics. It can bring a whole album together for me if done properly.

[Andrew McIntosh]

PE without lyrics = not PE, isn't that the standard definition?

Funny, because I was thinking of starting a thread about "instrmental" PE. How many Grey Wolves, Attrax Morgue, Mauthausen Orchestra etc. tracks don't have vocals? I think PE as being the "song" version of Noise is pretty well established these days, but not a necessity.

As for languages, the more foreign the better for me. I love listening to Northern European languages being shouted and screamed, the harshness of the words seem to fit the genre well.

[tiny_tove]

As for languages, the more foreign the better for me. I love listening to Northern European languages being shouted and screamed, the harshness of the words seem to fit the genre well.

totally agree.
I want to do more tracks in Italian.
Thing is very often screaming lyrics with strong contents in our language sounds very cheesy.

[tisbor]

As for languages, the more foreign the better for me. I love listening to Northern European languages being shouted and screamed, the harshness of the words seem to fit the genre well.

totally agree.
I want to do more tracks in Italian.
Thing is very often screaming lyrics with strong contents in our language sounds very cheesy.

Yes Italian language sounds quite ridiculous when shouted (like most of us do every day, heh)  but sometimes it's done very well. I'm thinking about classic Teatro Satanico or the recent "Cronaca Vera" CDr by Deviated Sister TV.

[tiny_tove]

I think Italian works when you don't use too vulgar words. It turns cheesy in one sec.
The Vasco Rossi effect is on -although I like Colpa d'Alfredo a lot-

[TS]

I love good lyrics and concepts, they're especially important in P.E, where an interesting concept can really make a release stand out. A good example of this is IRMs Four Studies For Crucifixion. Same goes for Hip-hop. In other genres its different, in black metal for example, its usually the sound, riffs, production etc. that makes it stand out, if the lyrics are good it's just a bonus.