Hyperbole descriptions

[Andrew McIntosh]

...like in some interviews...

That's another bugbear of mine - the re-use of acceptable clichés in interviews. "I don't care if anyone listens to my music" being one of the most over-used. Sometimes I think artists should not be interviewed but asked to write statements, so they can clearly express what it is they want to express.

(PS - Black Angkar, I realise that wasn't the point you where trying to make, I just picked up on your mention of interviews and wanted to go from that).

[Mikerdeath]

this looks like it was copy-pasted from the liner notes:

Francisco Meirino & Michael Esposito
GHOSTS OF CASE FILE 142 (40'46)

EVP research by Michael Esposito, Case File 142 from source recordings done
by Francisco Meirino at an ancient school of anatomy, now a library, in Lausanne, Switzerland 2011.
Assembled, edited and mastered by Francisco Meirino at Shiver Mobile, Nov-Dec. 2011.

Surely, a healthy middle might be achieved?

Yeah I thought It was a bit minimal, but for sake of example. This description alone sold me on the release and that's hard to do. I can't attribute that to how the description was written, it was simply the content of the description that worked.

So the less Hyperbole the better.

[Bloated Slutbag]

In the interest of not completely boring the reader to tears: a healthy middle might offer the straight set of descriptors up front, complete with useful nuggets such as reference to comparable work... and the interpretive fancy further on. If I'm getting something out of the former, I'm more likely to get something out of the latter - however unhinged.

(On the other hand, the image of the exceedingly po-faced narrator of an exceedingly over-the-top sequence of (auditory) events falls firmly within the category of Comedy, Classic.)

Also, in the interest of saving time:

I have often trusted more written analysis than sample.

Several such analyses may be scanned in the space of time it takes to sample a single clip that does reasonable justice to a piece of work.

[Jaakko V.]

Somehow this thread reminded me of this old classic from 2000 or something, by the utterly jaded and cynical James Hanna. Funny text, but on a more serious note, the section concerning product descriptions has some good points in it as well, hehe.

HOW TO BE A CULT INDUSTRIAL PROJECT: THE UNSPOKEN RULES OF THE DARK-ELECTRO-POST-INDUSTRO-NOISE "SCENE"

[Black_Angkar]

...like in some interviews...

That's another bugbear of mine - the re-use of acceptable clichés in interviews. "I don't care if anyone listens to my music" being one of the most over-used. Sometimes I think artists should not be interviewed but asked to write statements, so they can clearly express what it is they want to express.

(PS - Black Angkar, I realise that wasn't the point you where trying to make, I just picked up on your mention of interviews and wanted to go from that).

well yes I do agree. even if clichés are true (as most of surely create music for mostly selfsatisfaction) artists have some kind of responsibility to try and sidestep the formulaic answers. Or perhaps to elaborate on clichés in a way that makes it more personal or analytical than just the basics. This also applies to the interviewers, of course. This do mirror the process of marketing records as well, I suppose. 

[Matthias]

I was recently reading this very recommended swedish new noise zine FÖRDÄMNING #1. There is interview with P.Henning which sparks some good discussion worthy points. He expects more from labels texts telling details of their releases. Perhaps connected directly to quality control. You can tell and you can describe why this is essential and why it was put out in first place.
In many way I sympathize this idea, yet also same time wonder why not "brutal harsh noise" enough - that how tiny nuggets of information artist or label needs to dissect material for listener?

Even if we could say these almost meaningless generalizations as "harsh noise" tells very little, but also if one would need to know more of 5$ tape than "includes brutal harsh noise" or "includes filthy PE", I think it is kind of lazy. How detailed is the need of knowing what exactly one will get? You know, "I'm now in need of some German style PE, but no delay effects. And I don't want to hear about nazis or communists. Oh, this info here promises the release meets my needs"... heh...
How analyzed, and well written essays should be about material LISTENER needs to experience? Pre-dissected, chewed material.

Something like "brutal harsh noise" could say everything that needs to be said about certain releases, but are we only looking for a description of the actual sounds or do we want something more? Is it only about guiding the potential consumers? Now I hardly ever check out samples, but if it's just the sounds we're curious about, a picture may say more than 1000 words (not necessarily true of course, just trying to make a point). Even if it's just a $5 cassette, I'm not sure why I should pick up another "brutal harsh noise" cassette with a for me unknown act today when there's already tons of sweet, brutal harsh noise tapes in my collection. I get a laugh out of blatant "Buy me!" descriptions, but on the other hand, if the label really don't think it is an fantastic release, why was it even released to begin with?

I tend to think about it as how wine can be presented; first you're happy with the descriptions provided, like "Mature and rich, with a touch of cacao and a small hint of liquorice", but when you get more into it you start to read on the labels to get more details, you may want to know more about the region, grape, soil etc. Personally I'm interested in the motives behind the release, why did the recording even warrant a release? When and why was it recorded. I want to "feel it" before hearing it. Put some heart into it. Some passion. It could be a fine line though, over analyzing is certainly not good either. Sometimes "brutal harsh noise" may be everything that can be said, but then it has to the fucking BRUTAL harsh noise...

Taking mentioned Sprachlos Verlag as an example, what I appreciate is that texts almost works as exensions of the releases. Someone is taking the music dead serious, and you can feel it. One could raise the question, what purpose does labels even fill today? Somewhere the label has to become a part of the release, beyond the logo on the back. Too many times it just seems like a guy fronting the capital for the pressing plant bill. Different discussion perhaps...

[Zeno Marx]

That begs the fundamental question of what is the purpose of release notes and advertising write-ups?  To me, it is to provide the best possible information.  Not to window dress it.  Not to sell it.  But to be utilitarian and to stay as close to that line while also [hopefully] expressing genuine enthusiasm and belief in the release.

That's what bugs me about 95% of the release notes I read.  They tell me nothing about the music.  They give me no clue as to what it is.  I know no more about it after than before.  Information is sexy.  What only appears as snakeoil is not.

[Ritual]

That begs the fundamental question of what is the purpose of release notes and advertising write-ups?  To me, it is to provide the best possible information.  Not to window dress it.  Not to sell it.  But to be utilitarian and to stay as close to that line while also [hopefully] expressing genuine enthusiasm and belief in the release.

That's what bugs me about 95% of the release notes I read.  They tell me nothing about the music.  They give me no clue as to what it is.  I know no more about it after than before.  Information is sexy.  What only appears as snakeoil is not.

This makes me think again of the current thread "Quality control" (which inspired this thread initially)... How can you create genuine enthusiasm unless you really have belief in the release? If you're convinced that the release is truly worthy of being put out there, then it shouldn't be too hard to transfer that conviction through some lines of text. If not even the label is convinced, maybe hyperboles, exaggerations and clichés are all that remains to try to sell the product?

[Bloated Slutbag]

That begs the fundamental question of what is the purpose of release notes and advertising write-ups?  To me, it is to provide the best possible information.  Not to window dress it.  Not to sell it.  But to be utilitarian and to stay as close to that line

Pretty much agreed. Though when looking at label descriptions, my approach is far from scientific, or even rational. On the contrary, I'm basically looking for an excuse to spend. I want to be convinced and it doesn't take much to do that. So not scientist, but rather: dupe. Mark. Sucker. And into my sucker-brained calculus any number of idiotic factors may gain entry. Chief among these is, yes, the straight info. And it's nice when this info can be accessed quickly; that is, tagged onto the top, or the bottom, rather than buried in the middle, of a given exercise of poetic license. Dispensing with poetics altogether is a viable, if not I hope the only, prescription; but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In some respects, my approach to reviews is comparable, and often subject to the above-mentioned calculus. Given a long list of reviews, such as in a zine, I start with the artists I like, then progress to the seemingly most positive reviews. Finally, much later – days, weeks, months later - the more in depth "scientific study", as such. I suppose this approach may explain my relatively favorable appraisal of ratings systems, re- "Okay pal. Your score indicates you dig the shit; or you think it's really harsh; or that it sounds like a souped up harmonica. Now, convince me."

But I wonder if any of these concerns matter. In serving the better interests of suckers seeking satisfying sonics, a million and one potential filters may apply. Actually seeing them in practice, of course....

Not holding my breath.

[bogskaggmannen]

The real question is - does hyperbole descriptions make a release sell better?

[Bloated Slutbag]

The real question is - does hyperbole descriptions make a release sell better?

Answer - yes.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Something like "brutal harsh noise" could say everything that needs to be said about certain releases, but

Certainly I have slight exaggeration when it was stated (originally used as feedback to mentioned interview where it was said such description wouldn't be enough anymore.. which is valid point after all). One would obviously have to think usage of description. Is it the part of labels site/announcement or perhaps catalogue of style like my label has - where several thousands of CD's are listed one after another, and short to-the-point description may be necessity if one would expect anyone to actually browse list through.

Certainly "harsh noise" is so diverse, one could want to know a bit if it's dense or stripped down, fast or slow, crunchy or fierce, etc. But I'm still quite firm about what constitutes as description suitable for communication (introduction to potential listener) and what is meant to be review/analysis - where you dissect the material much further. I believe magazine reader would hope for... journalism of some sort. While customer looking to buy albums, is most likely rather looking to get merely few essential quotes instead full on review.

I do believe - you like it or not, hyperbole descriptions sells releases. If I write short to the point description in style of "fast, dynamic harsh noise with exceptionally good sense of composition". It may lure something, but the far out mythical story of cosmic ear-drills seems to appeal even more, hah..

[RyanWreck]

I am sure that I am guilty of this, I know that some of my reviews on the Pure Stench have probably came off as a bit gushy and pretentious or showy, as sometimes I read them months later and think the same thing. But for me, personally, it can sometimes be difficult to express certain feelings and ideas that I get from listening to such an abstract genre without the use of abstract descriptions, sometimes "wordy" or a bit over the top maybe, but there are those times where I can't find a single better way to describe something than the way it just comes out.

For descriptions that labels give I like to know what I am paying for, a good short description. I really don't want to read shit like "Desire for harm is the comfort of a steady faith in the imperishable. To seek possession of this absolute illuminates a destination marked by a path concealed by stones hurled from the veiled recesses of sanctuary." What the fuck does that mean? What does this band even play? Metal? Punk? Noise? I don't want to read your poetry journals as you sit in your cold dark room stroking your ego while all I am trying to do is decide how to spend my money. Most of the good labels don't really do this, they say what it sounds like and also give a bit of a personal opinion which helps pump you up to buy the album. There are times where I listen to a tape once and am like "meh, it's OK" and won't plan on listening to it again, and then I will see Mikko or Andrew give a description about it and I will think "shit I gotta hear that!" and pop it back in and really enjoy it, I'll catch something that I didn't before and actually really pay attention to it just because of a little description or opinionated review. So opinions, some sincere introspection about what you heard and vivid analysis/expressions can work great as long as it's coupled with an actual description of the music itself, some idea of the genre you are buying (especially if you have never heard the artist or they are completely changing their sound) and maybe a nod to the subject matter or content, is usually perfect, just enough. That's what I prefer.

[Black_Angkar]

now I think there's a difference to hyperbole and hyperbole. sometimes a little hyperbole is jut a part of a certain language or pattern of speech, where its still obviously humorous or not meant to be taken seriously. within some limits I think that is completely OK.   

a for reviews AND label descriptions I think one shouldn't try to avoid pretentiousness completely as the opposite option is completely boring as well. In the end a balance is appreciated. at the same time I think this could/should be distributed over several people - there shouldn't be a general style, but several distinct voices present in the "scene".

[Andrew McIntosh]

I am sure that I am guilty of this, I know that some of my reviews on the Pure Stench have probably came off as a bit gushy and pretentious or showy, as sometimes I read them months later and think the same thing.

I think any of us who have ever tried writing reviews have been guilty. I used to do a review zine/website and recall some absolute shockers.  I shamefully remember one particularly bad load of froth I submitted for a glossy music mag that, fortunately, the editor didn't include. That's the trouble with initial enthusiasm, it does wear away.