MALE RIGHTS MOVEMENT / IDEOLOGY

Started by jesusfaggotchrist, January 02, 2013, 12:51:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

bitewerksMTB

#60
"Liberals in the 19th century wanted to develop a world free from government intervention, or at least free from too much government intervention. They championed the ideal of negative liberty, which constitutes the absence of coercion and the absence of external constraints.[37] They believed governments were cumbersome burdens and they wanted governments to stay out of the lives of individuals...." - from Wikipedia


I like  Libertarianism, which, is what Liberalism started out as. I mainly keep up with John Stossel's show on the  Fox Business channel and reason.com

Jordan

From the Etymology section of the wiki entry on Libertarianism:

QuoteThe word stems from the French word libertaire. The use of the word "libertarian" to describe a set of political positions can be tracked to the French cognate, libertaire, which was coined in 1857 by French anarchist Joseph Déjacque who used the term to distinguish his libertarian communist approach from the mutualism advocated by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.[11] Hence libertarian has been used by some as a synonym for left anarchism since the 1890s.[12] The term libertarianism is commonly considered to be a synonym of anarchism in countries other than the US.[9] Albert Jay Nock and H.L. Mencken were the first prominent conservatives in the US to call themselves "libertarians," which they used to signify their allegiance to individualism and limited government, feeling that Franklin D. Roosevelt had co-opted the word "liberal" for his New Deal policies, which they opposed.[13]

Not the best source I know, but I'm feeling to lazy at the moment to walk over to the book shelf and type up a better history of the term.

I lean more towards Stirnerism and European-style individualist anarchism, though I don't like to describe myself in those terms, or any reified role generally.  I read Reason (though I don't really like John Stossel) and there are many American style Libertarians that I have enjoyed reading, and often absorbed much of into my own weltanschauung/analysis, such as the aforementioned Mencken, Szasz, Karl Hess, Gerry Reith, Robert Anton Wilson, L.A. Rollins, etc. etc. etc. I don't know, I could go on and on, but probably shouldn't.

Robert Anton Wilson once said "I would call myself a Libertarian, but I just can't bring myself to hate the poor." and I can definitely understand where he was coming from. Curiously, towards the end of his life, he advocated a system of worker controlled, anarcho-syndicalist factories/industries trading with each other in an anarcho-capitalist free-market system. Murray Rothbard used to go on and on that no left-anarchist he had ever met could answer the "Auban question" put forth in John Henry Mackay's novel The Anarchists, which in essence asked the left-anarchists: in their proposed free society, would people who wanted to own private property and engage in free market transactions be permitted to do so, and if they weren't to be permitted, how could you call them free? Robert Anton Wilson, probably drawing on Rothbard's repeated use of the Auban question to dismiss non-capitalist anarchists as authoritarian, seems to have answered it quite nicely, but nobody seemed to notice.

But yeah, I've drawn inspiration from the works of anti-authoritarian thinkers of all stripes, especially if they espouse an unorthodox or heterodox version of anti-authoritarianism. I've taken inspiration from many authoritarian theorists as well, I just usually find much less of the totality of their works useful to my thinking.

bitewerksMTB



This is what I found for the RAW quote: "Once, summing up why he didn't vote for the 1980 Libertarian Party candidate, he explained, "I am not that kind of Libertarian, really; I don't hate poor people." " (from http://boingboing.net/tag/raw-week)

I haven't looked up the '80 LP candidate yet.

Hating the poor is how liberals seem to consider libertarians  (or anyone that has a different viewpoint) b/c they want entitlement programs cut. Any cut to liberals is the worst thing in the world...


Jordan

#63
RAW said more or less the same things over and over again throughout his career. I haven't read anything by him in a long time, though I did check out some interviews and shit on youtube when he died. Pretty sad situation at the end of his life, if you check out the fundraising pleas that Douglas Rushkoff was putting out for him, it paints a pretty bleak picture considering how well known he was in so many circles. Pretty good argument for social security. Ha! I guess RAW would push for a GNI though. Incidentally, the guy who wrote the most well known translation of The Ego And It's Own was a former Georgeist.
A really good RAW work that has held up is Natural Law, Or Never Put A Rubber On Your Willy. He drops the New Age stuff and puts out a fairly well reasoned critique of the natural law arm of libertarianism, which I guess would mean Spooner et. al. I don't know, it's been at least ten years since I've read any of this stuff.
Although I have my lapses, I think it's best to stop arguing, petitioning, legislating -- even demanding liberties -- and to just take them.

EDIT: I was pulling that quote from memory, which I do perhaps too often considering the ease with which these things can often be pulled from google, but I know for sure that he's said it, or something very close to it, closer than the one you found in the context of the Libertarian Party ticket. I'll check my issues of Trajectories later, though I have a pretty long backlog of things I need to check in my personal library, usually to settle arguments. Since this doesn't have the pressing nature of an argument, I'll probably put it on the back burner for a while.

online prowler

All this nonsense from one idiotic link?! However entertaining read this verbal fencing is, it is all turning out like a crack whore søkking a sad limp cock.

Though I'll say there is one interesting aspect with this thread reading it back-to-back so far: Experiencing how much feminist ideology is integrated in today's mens role, versus the cellar onslaught of those whom disapprove this.

A large part of the concept of men's rights seem to spring from '70s liberal culture and politics, which feminism plus the equal rights movement was a part of. In my eyes
the concept and notion of men's rights is as an extension from this heritage, and can in this context be understood as a cultural and political disempowerment of the identity of MAN / MEN. With paranoid humour glasses it almost can seem as the war of the sexes from the feminist standpoint includes a strategy of divide and conquer. Anyway I see points and ramblings made in both camps, and I'd like to give JFC kudos for his stayer attitude in this thread.  

Enough said, may my initial procreation link inspire a hateful and sordid PE text titled Feminism=Confusion.