Noise/industrial trapped in technology

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, December 26, 2013, 11:20:07 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

FreakAnimalFinland

I was trying to find old topic of this subject, but didn't. It may exists or may not.
Perhaps earlier on board was touched more the "bigger" subjects related to noise, and perhaps it would be good move to go back to that?

For irritation of some, lets throw in Heidegger's theory of technology(.. hah!) According to one of his analysis, originally technology meant seeing and knowing. It was tied in with craftsmanship and art. To see and realize something. Man would use something what has been waiting to be discovered and used. However, modern technology has distanced itself from original creative origin. With lack of choice, lack of true connection to creative origin - being more of storage of ideas.

This is very common pattern of idea that has been presented in discussions of "handmade" or "self made" noise vs. technology fueled noise. At least discussion circulates it, even if can't put it in words. Where one may come to conclusion that "what's wrong with fruity loops if it sounds good", or "my noise is just as good as _______, I have crunchy death metal and big muzz too" (etc). Where every innovation and every sonic creation is almost complete. Only thing you do is remain trapped inside technological format - playing within parameters of "machine". Kind of similar as the problems of "synth jams". Like modular synth, where one perhaps lives under impression of making discoveries and creating something, but most often remains outsider trapped inside someone elses machine.

The fetishistic obsession to specific drum machine or keyboard brand often makes me wonder what artists really gains from it? Or in other hand distancing creative process from discoveries into narrow controlled instruments created for specific purpose - and most often using them even less than instrument would allow (lets say Kaos Pad or even power electronics classic a'la WASP, MS10 or 20, haha).

So if there is difficulties to know what exactly to discuss on topic like this... Perhaps:
1)Is technological approach in noise problem - or actually advantage?
2)If it's problem, what kind of noise offers solutions. Brings body and soul into work?
Perhaps noise where only quality is presence in moment?
Perhaps noise where creation of technology is natural part of noise making?
3) What appears other persons limit, in fact is not. Where coolness of tape loop might be much more of technological trap than usage of fruity loops and lap top.
4) etc,  feel free to expand....
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

kettu

whitehouse did 4 great albums back to back using what I would describe as laptop noise and it was great.
from what I know it seems to be an exeption in the rule. there must be good hightech noise but I cant think of too many examples( maybe seer of decay by GRUNT, clean and brutal sound, innovative songs with  structure and chaos) maybe not the best example for technology as it was still the basic cornerstones, junk,feefback,synth,samples,shouting but the audiowise it sound crisp and cool.



one thing I like about "old timey" methods is that you can do noise completelly assbackwards, using unorthodox recording methods and semibroken instruments and recorders and come up with neat hiss and noise. sitting in front of a computer, twiddling knob icons seems like professional studio bullshit and boring.

manhandling and missusing fancy gear as an idea sounds ok, compared to using professional methods and instruments correctly to make noise. this might just be a personal preference and justification for liking shitgear just because I cant afford anything nice.


ive been listening to streicher re-releases and was pleasently reminded how varied they sound. different sounding tracks, hills and valleys in the moods all made with a fairly primitive setup.







FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: kettu on December 26, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
whitehouse did 4 great albums back to back using what I would describe as laptop noise and it was great.
from what I know it seems to be an exeption in the rule. there must be good hightech noise but I cant think of too many examples( maybe seer of decay by GRUNT, clean and brutal sound, innovative songs with  structure and chaos) maybe not the best example for technology as it was still the basic cornerstones, junk,feefback,synth,samples,shouting but the audiowise it sound crisp and cool.

None of these examples fit to topic what for example Jason Crumer interview in Special Interests talked about. Noise that is made by people not aware of noise as genre. I think that moment could be simply described as moment of "discovery". Whitehouse reborn as "laptop noise" was sort of discovery and experimentation. I'm quite sure they would be aware they could keep doing the same and receive praise and popularity. I don't think power of later days Whitehouse was as much the lap top & time stretch noise effect as it was most of all language and physicality of vocal performance. Intelligent, well written, hidden with subtle meanings and personal obsessions, hysterical manner of performing, on edge where you can't really say is it brutal, weird, fierce or just fun. If one would rate highly such quality as ENERGY, despite direct line lap top noises, there would be just that.

One should not mistake WELL DONE, as being "trapped in technology".
Trapped in technology would be perhaps moment where every element happens only on level of multiplication (can explain if this ain't clear enough..)
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

ConcreteMascara

I think maybe the trap of certain gear or technology can be overcome by an artist seeking innovation and honest expression. For example, using standard death metal pedal but spending many, many hours to find new ways to use it, not just as load distortion and brute sound but by plugging it into many things, using shitty connections, different mixers or new sound sources, i think the range of many pedals or even "standard" synths is quite large if they're not "set to 11" all of the time.
Tape loops and modular synth stuff is fun to play with and as mentioned in another thread, the results can be very enjoyable while twiddling, but when recorded and listened to later, perhaps irrelevant to anyone not present at the session. At the same time, people like Dilloway or Altar of Flies can use tape loops to create very original and new sounds most of the time. I feel like the thought goes beyond "tape loops, cool stuff bro" to actual direction and vision.
This discussion makes me think of acid techno. The entire genre relies on the Roland TB303. That is THE ESSENTIAL sound. But the best artists are still making new and innovative music with that synth 25 onwards.
to re-iterate, the trap, in my opinion, is using any gear for its most obvious and blunt purpose, instead of exploring and finding unique ways of using it.
[death|trigger|impulse]

http://soundcloud.com/user-658220512

Cementimental

there's not really much of a trap, on the contrary even most supposedly 'technical' or gear-fetishistic noise artists are only scraping the surface of the sounds possible.

E.D.K.W.A.R.

Extreme noise and industrial music/culture has always been a reflection of extreme conditions in society, and since we are living in an age where the newest technologies are worshiped and obsessed over it only makes sense that every aspect of our culture, even the most underground or un-commercial is affected by it. I think it was Gerhard Hallstatt who wrote, when talking about Z'EV (i think?) that the early industrial musicians tried to "beat industrial civilization with its own weapons", or hold a mirror to it or something along those lines...I think this sums up my own feelings and motivations as far as creativity is concerned, the re-appropriation of technology and sound sources to create something new outside of the original intentions of the inventor....then again who are the inventors these days? Assembly line production of synths and pedals and apps purchased and used by people only obsessing over technology/gear fetish can only lead to one thing, and the results are of course going to be generic and sound as if they came from an assembly line themselves. The bottom line for me is always INTENTION. if the intent is to create noise for social involvement in a scene or to simply have releases then this will be evident in the product. If the intent is pure and earnest desire to express oneself through the medium of noise then these results can be realized regardless of technologies/equipment involved...we shouldn't settle to be "man trapped in a machine" but to break free and take control of the machine itself and use it as a tool for our own means..

pentd

the method might be more interesting than the outcome, this is one of the biggest traps in anything. high-brow noise, EA, experimental sound, caveman-tronix.... many cases where insane theories & liner notes & whatnot is needed to justify the existence of a work, then it ends up sounding like a modem or a vacuum cleaner

another thing is "consensus marketing" where the sheep-snowball-effect happens and mass hypnosis reigns about opinions and tastes and acceptance of something.. i often hear many whining bout why something is not good because of method "x" yet the same method used by "approved" artist "xx" is supposedly amazing... this in the light of worshipping/dissing a piece of gear or a method

((speakin of noise made by people unaware of noise or "noise"--- OWL!! also highbrow jazz wunderkind mikko innanen has released a fuckin intense album called "F60.8" which i once blind-tested to a bunch of "international noise people" and of course no-one guessed what it was yet everyone agreed about its killerness, pick it up! ))

maybe "all options" have been available already for a long time, so now its only up to the composition and choice of elements combined with the "fire" of the artist that might bring the true essence out?



tinnitustimulus

the thing that sucks about people on laptops is that they are often stuck with a cursor, only being able to use one control at a time, that is unless they have some sort of xy kaoss pad or midicontroller. But there is always latency when dealing with live processes that always irritate me. One person who has always been unique with the laptop has been John Mannion, though it is the small part of what he does now in comparison to his Cathode Terror Secretion days. http://vimeo.com/27513782 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVNDP434tJc

Still again it is much easier to use a DAW then a Reel to Reel or 4 track, though I know Jason Crumer uses both of these. Tape is irreplaceable in it's qualities, but I'm not sure if that is a trap. I still prefer a mellotron over a sk1 or microSampler any day of the week, even as a Hands To fan. Plenty of people paint acrylic nowadays and it is easier to work with, but those who look at paintings still gravitate towards oil as classics are.

I find analog purists to be ridiculous, but I still appreciate their romanticism of them not going through the most convenient road. I personally use a 4 track in my setup currently, but I also use a digital delay that has irritated some of those people. Tape loops regenerating into digital loops? what a terrible idea!

GEWALTMONOPOL

Quote from: tinnitustimulus on January 03, 2014, 01:41:23 AMI find analog purists to be ridiculous

Sonic Youth fans who fantasize over Phil Spector during the handtralla.
Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

tinnitustimulus

Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on January 03, 2014, 02:12:06 AM
Quote from: tinnitustimulus on January 03, 2014, 01:41:23 AMI find analog purists to be ridiculous

Sonic Youth fans who fantasize over Phil Spector during the handtralla.

Hah, try a strict haircut minimal wave goth on one end and a mail art cassette collector trying to continue the tradition on the other. Sonic Youth type of people are stuck with guitars so they don't have much to say to me gear wise.



jesusfaggotchrist

I don't know what the problem is, I just downloaded the Sauciscillator and the SynprezFM for Android and might be using them in future projects

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on January 04, 2014, 07:29:57 PM
I don't know what the problem is, I just downloaded the Sauciscillator and the SynprezFM for Android and might be using them in future projects

Enough said, I guess?
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Leewar

I always think it is not what you use - but how you use it.

transmaniacon

The gear can be trap, but in the right hands it shouldn't manner.  The first Van Halen record most of the playing is through a 200 dollar guitar, and it certainly doesn't suffer.  Artists like Xome, Sickness and T.E.F.  use a vast array of pedals and make some of the best noise out there.  I have seen Knurl and Richard Ramirez play sets with three or four pedals and it was amazing.  There is habit of collecting gear and hoarding, but a poor workman will always blame his tools.   A good cook can make a good meal no matter the ingredients.

New gear/technology will devolve to nostalgic gear in 10 years and it is a cannibalistic loop because most people are afraid of what is within more than what is outside.

jesusfaggotchrist

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on January 05, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist on January 04, 2014, 07:29:57 PM
I don't know what the problem is, I just downloaded the Sauciscillator and the SynprezFM for Android and might be using them in future projects

Enough said, I guess?

I know people complain about analog purity but you can get a lot of mileage out of digital equipment, like the guy above me said, its not what you use, its how you use it.