Hurting Yourself For Entertainment

[Andrew McIntosh]

Fearless Leader's recent post about a Justice Yeldham album got me thinking. What recordings I've heard of Yeldham have been, clearly, forgettable. But those who have seen his live shtick are, invariably, impressed. From what I gather, he takes a piece of glass, contact mic's it to the p.a., then presses the thing against his face until he gets hurt.

Sound interesting? There has been a masochistic element in this music's world - Con-Dom using a whip on himself, Levas proudly posing in SI with a huge cut in his arm, Martin Bladh - how much of this is macho posturing and how much of this is art-school wanking?

Okay, that's being deliberately provocative but, paring it back to politer terms, the question is still there. What's going on with people hurting themselves on stage at PE/etc. gigs? How prevalent is it? What do people really think of it? Does it make the artist more dedicated, more extreme and therefore more commendable?

Attacking an audience I can understand. Attacking oneself, not so much. Please, if you will, enlighten me.

[HongKongGoolagong]

Good and transformative performance - transformative for both audience and performer - is linked very closely to notions of shamanism and endurance. Leaving aside the more obvious provocations of PE and noise, there is an element of watching someone take their body to the limit in a good rock show - Angus Young sweating half his body weight away every gig. Or in for instance ballet where the dancers push their bodies beyond what's reasonable, and what looks beautiful is actually acutely painful and exhausting for the ballerinas.

I guess the more extreme examples of this stuff also works as a good old fashioned freak show, like paying to see the geek bite the heads off animals at the carny, and sometimes there's an element of voyeuristic kink. And sometimes an element of personal psychological or mental health issues the performer is trying to work through.

[Leewar]

I can appreciate it when its performers caught up in the moment, and it just happens, otherwise its a bit "Look at me, im mad me!"

[Levas]

Well, blood looks nice and there is no need to fake it if you need it in performance. For me it was perhaps more ritualistic, tribal, primitive, animalistic etc. approach - cutting chest or arms in special places, drawing or writing something with blood in those shows that I needed that. There were 5 I think with more or less cutting. I guess different people have different motives, but I don't think it's something exceptional, etc. at least for me. Some people shit on stage, some vomits, some masturbate, some just stand there doing nothing and if these actions help to reach the whole desired picture of what you are saying and what you want to say (if anything at all) so why not.

[impulse manslaughter]

I love body art from the 70's by artists like Gunther Brus, Chris Burden and Ulay/Marina Abramovic. Best example in industrial/noise music in my eyes is Club Moral. I first met DDV when i was in art school and he was invited to do a performance workshop that lasted a week. Within 2 days he had people carving themselves and in the end things got out of hand and one student had to be taken to the hospital.

[Duncan]

The format and ideas in and of themselves are fertile grounds for potentially incredible work, but more often than not succumb to really exhausted tropes and cliches.  Perhaps a pretty good allegory for the whole of P.E. and Industrial if we're being additionally provocative.

In any case, most of what I see/have seen at best achieves a level of extremity which causes discomfort in spite of it's cliched nature and at worst come across as a clearly pre-meditated stage move presented as an act of abandon and spontaneity.

I think the only times working with these ideas - to my mind at least - has any effect is when the injury is a side effect of a different purpose to the entire act.  I think Justice Yeldham actually falls into this camp, as his whole thing seems to be much more about the use of the glass as an interesting sound making object coupled with the visual aspect of his face being all contorted and smooshed up behind it.  I'm pretty sure the injury is very much a by product.  I've seem him play loads of times and end up with very mild scratches which hardly amount to any sort of noticeable stage antic.  Although very different, the same kind of thing can be said of Masonna in this vid at around the 3.05 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylDuOmEoZx0

losing his shit and happening to fall off a wall in the process = great, genuine entertainment.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Not necessary entertainment purposes, but while I personally play, I tend to treat my gear with care - but I see other people hurting themselves in being caught by moment. Like even if gently pushing distortion pedal would be enough, after gig, you got guys with bloody fists simply for getting caught in moment. Of course, myself and endless amount of others get cut & bruised in sets, but I think it is more about energy and intensity, than act of "hurting"?

I liked Forza Albino gigs with singer punishing himself for the dirty urges. Or Bizarre Uproar few shows where man was subjected to belt-whipping. As method of self-humiliation, rather than "entertainment" I think. Same goes for the video footage used recently. Utmost self humiliation. I think attacking audience - especially the weakest & smallest guy in first row is hardly even entertaining. Pushing limits by beating your head with microphone until it's bleeding & swollen (a.k.a. Forza Albino in finest tradition of GG Allin?) as form of self punishment - I get it. It is disturbing and it fits perhaps much more accurately to vast amount of artwork there, which hardly attacks the audience as much as it brings demons of creator into open.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Attacking the smallest and weakest person in any situation, let alone a gig, is piss-ant. However, physically engaging - to the point of attacking - with an audience is something that I think never goes out of style. People think they're prepared for it, but when they're obliged to react it brings out the individual. In any case, my experience is that people hardly ever expect it in the first place. It gets them every time.

The closest I've come to self-mutilation in a live situation was when I was rooting around in a wheelie bin with a microphone through a pedal to get Noise, and came out with a few widdle scratches on my arms from the broken bottles. The point was the Noise, not the scratches. In my then-drunken state I thought "shit, great, suffering for my anti-art!", now I'm just glad it wasn't more serious.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Some people are just addicted to low level chaos. Even – especially? - those professing a correspondence with themes of domination and control. And in the moment, and under the influence, there is very little that one is not capable of. This is neither to be censured nor applauded but to be observed much as one would a trainwreck (or life in general).

I'm more interested in the completely sober, fully contrived, species of self-flagellation. And/or of course the inevitable aftermath- eg Mikawa, pissedasfuck, bashing face in with piece of gear, chipping tooth, rolling ass out of bed bright n early next morning, dressing up in penguin suit shmoozing with banker buddies. That kind of thing I like, a lot.

[ConcreteMascara]

I enjoy self-mutilation so it's natural to bring it into the live setting for me. Not all the time, but it's certainly an option. The bigger problem is can you cut yourself while still using your gear and getting a good live sound?
the last CM show in Finland I got a little carried away with the cutting... did it add something to the performance? I don't know because I was too drunk to remember, but hopefully.
Will there be cutting in future CM performances? if it will enhance the performance. blood is beautiful and i just legitimately like the taste of it.

[Duncan]

I'm more interested in the completely sober, fully contrived, species of self-flagellation. And/or of course the inevitable aftermath- eg Mikawa, pissedasfuck, bashing face in with piece of gear, chipping tooth, rolling ass out of bed bright n early next morning, dressing up in penguin suit shmoozing with banker buddies. That kind of thing I like, a lot.

This part is interesting, if indeed an artist does maintain something of a double life between their work and...profession!? This is more of a personal interest than anything too directly related to pain in/as entertainment but perhaps still relevant.

I did a show a while ago where I sustained a pretty huge cut on my wrist and it was quite fun thinking of what to the the old ladies at my then job in a greeting card shop as an excuse when they noticed.

[C601]

A lot of it just seems forced, pretty meh

[vargrwulf]

I have accidentally hurt myself at gigs, especially when first starting out.
Things go better when all equipment is safe and I feel no pain afterward.

[Bloated Slutbag]

A lot of it just seems forced, pretty meh

Yeah, nothing I hate more than a performance, on a stage, that seems staged.

[C601]

A lot of it just seems forced, pretty meh

Yeah, nothing I hate more than a performance, on a stage, that seems staged.

im not a fan of bad acting