Industrial connected to actual politics?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

There was recently topic of anarchist PE. I think that it is rare case that industrial/noise address very direct agenda or works as "spokesmen" of some specific political agenda. Perhaps due fact that such methods often flattens artistic values, and makes music rather tool of politics than art for sake of itself.

It's hard to consider Brethren as "spokesman" for American Renaissance, but extensive sampling of Jared Taylor and quotes from known sources makes it much less of merely artistic choice, or provocation. Rather tool of spreading such message. Comparing this to for example Deathkey would make it clear example of project that has no connection to "real world politics" or "organizations".

In Finland we have some new projects such as Straight Arm Salute, which curiously in the first tape release listed many political organizations and parties in their thanks list. Not to mention full length CD album too is far from neutral. Perhaps one is slightly baffled by quoting recently famous mr. Immonen in booklet filled with swastikas and lining up pictures under "great thinkers" slogan, from David Lane to Pentti Linkola. Musically one could perhaps draw lines of old clumsiest Blood Axis, NAOS, and such. Clearly with leaning to nsbm aesthetic than traditions of industrial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4nnsMm8st4

Another new project Veri & Maa (Blood & Land) follows traditions of gloomy martial industrial. Very much recycled ideas of genre, but with pretty explicit content. Sampling from mp3 sources of Linkola Interviews isn't sonically very pleasing, but again, music that seems to operate rather as tool of dissemenation of ideas, not as idea of art for sake of good art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9s0puTj8y8

Examples from other side of political spectrum are perhaps little less obvious, but as example one could think Performancefiesta 2015 Noise against Hierarchy.   Event included performance art, noise, installations and interactive installations. Vegan kitchen. etc. I didn't see any reports of how was for example Nihilist Waves, who comes from Italy, but apparently lives in Finland?! As far as I have understood, NW has very obvious political motivations and fits well in this very strongly left wing activist & multicultural center environment and no wonder he doesn't seem any connection to "power electronics scene" of Finland? Event could have be quite curious, but I happened to be on other side of Finland at other gig.
https://nihilistwaves.bandcamp.com/album/nazis-make-me-vomit

Feelings of art forgetting artistic values and drifting to be tool of ideology or propaganda? In what terms one would approach it? I personally don't think "message" should be separated from experience. Not that one should agree what is being said, but to deconstruct all to pieces and conclude "people don't buy/listen this because music is good, but because..." seems nonsense approach.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Perhaps short addition, what potential discussion could be focused

Not as much about: Artistic treatment of politics
More about: Political treatment of art

[Levas]

Barzel? Zionistic power electronics. Though I think it's not active anymore. He was pretty serious about his ideas. I think he also dropped the interview idea for terror because of some pretty "uncomfortable" questions. Or because of health problems. I'm not sure at this moment.

[tiny_tove]

On the left
Militia come to mind.
In Italy many big names of old school industrial were active in squats and had links with zines like Amen and a bit later with Decoder. I think of CCC CNC NCN and Officine Schwartz. Althougb most people I know who are politically/religiously involved don't use their sounds for propaganda.

[Duncan]

Feelings of art forgetting artistic values and drifting to be tool of ideology or propaganda? In what terms one would approach it?

Not as much about: Artistic treatment of politics
More about: Political treatment of art

But don't you think it is all a little bit more circular and reflexive than this?

While I have no doubt that everything mentioned so far in the thread is 'real' i.e. made by people who actually believe the things they talk about, all we've really done is separate these people from the billions of others who use the same/similar imagery ambiguously.  Barking strongly worded statements and parading in provocative social and political imagery are total creative cornerstones of noise/industrial/PE so any artist working within them has a real fight on their hands if they truly want to make a statement which is discernibly political before aesthetic.  I get a mega kick out of listening to this kind of music (regardless of whether I agree with its message) but I feel that even the best and most effective artists have done nothing except achieve a more intriguing/unique aesthetic for themselves in a genre where 'theme' is the law.

There is talk of this music being used as propaganda tool or method conveying ideas....fair enough in essence, but who are the audience? Is your average fan of PE and Industrial somebody particularly susceptible to something like this or is it like I say just another branch of aesthetic interest? Is anyone going to take anything from a Brethren or Black Bloc record that falls outside the experience of appreciating works of Industrial of PE to the extent that it plays into the formation of new political actions and opinions? I'd certainly be interested to hear from people for whom this has been the case...

Even if we are prepared, as you say, to take the message completely with the rest of the work any effect produced remains very much constricted within the knowledge that one is appreciating a power electronics record which, as enjoyable as it is, is absolutely not a political act before it is an aesthetic one.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

There is talk of this music being used as propaganda tool or method conveying ideas....fair enough in essence, but who are the audience?

During the year, I have talked with many, who have "gained" something from industrial. See the other topic: "Industrial non-musical references: What did you get?" ( http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=5925.0 )
Audience may be small, but it is irrelevant. Audience may not be "new converts", but those already feet in doorway or merely in need of experiencing collective interest?

As example of industrial connected to actual politics, perhaps Zetazeroalfa Divisione Rumore? Or Test Dept with South Wales Striking Miners Choir? Where music transforms into level of actual day-to-day political reality (of given time). I'd feel it has significant difference of politics as entertainment, when it aims to be sound of revolution.