White power?

[HongKongGoolagong]

I always thought it was funny how people would be apprehensive about Sotos' writing because he might be racist. Talking about chopping up a little boys penis in a public bathroom with scissors is glazed over without discourse but he says "nigger" and "wetback" and all of a sudden people become worried.

And some of the readers who could get past all that stuff and understand that he was aligned neither to murder, paedophila nor racism suddenly got all upset over his graphic descriptions of animal torture in the sublime Show Adult in that ancient yahoo group. Sotos is a very genuine writer, I care very little about the guy's obvious big bear sexuality and barely know him. It seems very obvious to me however much he may say nigger nigger nigger that he isn't racist or interested in any of this deeply autistic political shit. He has been known to hang out with Darius James fuck's sake. Don't really know about some of these obnoxious sounding mentally unwell noise 'artists' in this thread, think I heard that Deathkey was a perverse prank of some sort and remember being told that Control Resistance were for real genuine idiots. Oh well I'm ranting now and will shut the fuck up.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Racism is stupid, precisely because it's a basic human trait. We love splitting ourselves up into little groups, for what are probably evolutionary reasons. I really don't care about the "why" any more, all I know is that it's all too human.

Personally, though, I prefer an honest bigot who just doesn't like who s/he doesn't like, to those who try to rationalise the irrational with ideology. This is why I always prefer Xenophobic Ejaculation to other usual suspects, like Control Resistance or Brethren. Despite the Nazi imagery, XE isn't on a soapbox trying to convince the listener, it's just blatant fuck-off hate, straight from the maelstrom of the guts. As well as excellent, blatant use of feedback.

Control Resistance has some good sounds ("Declaration" is a good track) but all that wanging on about Israel and the Jews and that just puts me off. It's like paranoia ranting.

Brethren I never got into, mainly because of the vocals. I know that's often one of the main features of Brethren, but where I think he over-used that shouting was on "The Chosen". It seemed to me that the words on that would have had a lot more emphasis if he had uttered them sinister and sardonic, rather than shout every single syllable at the top of his lungs. If you're going to be paranoid about "the Jews", make them sound genuinely scary. For the most part Brethren are okay but not my bag.

Organised Resistance's "Day Of The Rope" is a pretty reasonable PE album. The lyrics on "What Will You Do?" have so much in common with anarcho-punk lyrics it's almost funny. But apart from the soap-boxing it's a good album.

Deathkey I just couldn't get into. I tried, because all the elements I like - mainly thick layers of ultra-distorted synth - were there, but for some reason it just sounded too sloppy and not quite right to me. Also, the vocals.

I've got a rip of the old Slave State "White Land, White Rule" tape and it sounds quite good to me, standard issue early cassette era PE, always nice. Hardly anything political, or indeed with any kind of issue at all with the actual music.

Also have rips of the Terre Blanche releases and like them even better, very nice, raw, layered electronics. Reminds me of the solo stuff of Mark Solotroff for some reason...

I didn't mind some of the Genocide Lolita stuff I heard on YouTube but it's been a while. Might chase it up again some time soon.

[sterilization]

Also have rips of the Terre Blanche releases and like them even better, very nice, raw, layered electronics. Reminds me of the solo stuff of Mark Solotroff for some reason...

That's probably because TB was actually MS.

[RyanWreck]

Also have rips of the Terre Blanche releases and like them even better, very nice, raw, layered electronics. Reminds me of the solo stuff of Mark Solotroff for some reason...

That's probably because TB was actually MS.

It's like everything on AWB and Bloodlust! and related labels was MS. I bet "Buyers Market" is just MS, Sigillum S is just him and himself when he stayed at a motel in Milan, and fucking Megan Emish is just him in drag.

And of course by MS we mean M. Sanderson.....

Control Resistance has some good sounds ("Declaration" is a good track) but all that wanging on about Israel and the Jews and that just puts me off. It's like paranoia ranting.

Brethren I never got into, mainly because of the vocals.

I didn't mind some of the Genocide Lolita stuff I heard on YouTube but it's been a while. Might chase it up again some time soon.

Yea, Brethren vocals were a turn off for me. Soapbox is a great word for that style in general and I've never liked it and I've always gotten shit for it. I feel like I'm really the only person who doesn't like that era/sound/style of the typical American 00's PE "unit" that Brethren (and all his side projects), Slogun, Deathpile, SKM-ETR, Control, etc. showcased. Just some low-end rumble with clear, up front yelling. The whole aesthetic of it was a turn off, reminded me of hip-hop mixed with CSI.

Completely forgot about Genocide Lolita and his other side project Operation Miranda.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Also have rips of the Terre Blanche releases and like them even better, very nice, raw, layered electronics. Reminds me of the solo stuff of Mark Solotroff for some reason...

That's probably because TB was actually MS.

I know, I was trying to be subtle.

[Ashmonger]

A rather new US PE project is Plantation. "Radical and racist Vinlandic Power Electronics" as described by the label (Vanguard Productions). Can be listened to here: http://vanguardproductions.bandcamp.com/.
I've got a load of Vanguard Productions titles in my distro, I also have a limited amount of all Plantation releases, but haven't added them to my list yet, since most of them came as a master tape with covers and I still have to get tapes to dub them.

[bitewerksMTB]

"It seems very obvious to me however much he {Peter Sotos} may say nigger nigger nigger that he isn't racist or interested in any of this deeply autistic political shit."

I have it on good authority that Peter donates $1 every single time he writes the word "nigger" to the United Negro College Fund, so, yeah, he's not a bigot at all. And he has one black friend. I bet he volunteers around those neighborhoods where all the gangs are shooting kids dead every weekend, too.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Completely forgot about Genocide Lolita and his other side project Operation Miranda.

I first heard about it on the old Tronicks forum and recall there was a bit of piss taking going on about it, which was hardly surprising, but did give an impression that it wasn't a "serious" project.

There's a hell of a lot on YouTube, and however seriously it's intended, it sounds to me like perfectly acceptable Heavy Electronics, borrowing a lot from Genocide Organ's louder moments with, perhaps, a bit of a Survival Unit feel thrown in. The message is all very blatant and preachy, but with enough vitriol to make it entertaining. Average White Power Electronics.

[F_c_O]

(...)

Control Resistance has some good sounds ("Declaration" is a good track) but all that wanging on about Israel and the Jews and that just puts me off. It's like paranoia ranting.

Brethren I never got into, mainly because of the vocals. I know that's often one of the main features of Brethren, but where I think he over-used that shouting was on "The Chosen". It seemed to me that the words on that would have had a lot more emphasis if he had uttered them sinister and sardonic, rather than shout every single syllable at the top of his lungs. If you're going to be paranoid about "the Jews", make them sound genuinely scary. For the most part Brethren are okay but not my bag.

Organised Resistance's "Day Of The Rope" is a pretty reasonable PE album. The lyrics on "What Will You Do?" have so much in common with anarcho-punk lyrics it's almost funny. But apart from the soap-boxing it's a good album.

Deathkey I just couldn't get into. I tried, because all the elements I like - mainly thick layers of ultra-distorted synth - were there, but for some reason it just sounded too sloppy and not quite right to me. Also, the vocals.

(...)

I'd like to see the dvd that came with some Brethren release some time. Must be interesting watch, to say the least, unless its like those 2543534 hour shitfests on youtube. You must be inclined to believe them to bother to watch something so long that is clearly going to just rile about how jews did it. and that. and this. As for Brethren itself, while I personally like the vocals, the noise itself isnt my thing. Just something about how it sounds doesnt sound right to my ears. It just doesnt sound distorted to me, it sounds to me someone just pushed everything up to 11 on audacity and found out that you can make the whole thing clip a fuckton. Of course, I might be completely wrong here but either way.

Deathkey on the other hand, I enjoy the noise but don't like the vocals. Never been into highly effected vocals, at all. Still more tolerable than use of flanger or phaser or what the fuck ever used to make things sound like youre trying to yell me something under water.

[Cranial Blast]

But, sure, a lot of  people do that sort of thing. Sick Seed covered Skrewdriver, didn't they? Con-Dom and The Grey Wolves used a lot of White Power imagery, and seem to be not that way inclined, at all. Genocide Organ have 'White Power Forces', and no one who knows anything has them down as a 'white power band'.
Oh yes, I accept you were equivocal enough about FFH, but I'd never have thought it from their stuff. Perhaps the cover of 'Make Them Understand' could be a bit suggestive, but it's hardly explicit, and I supposed the lad who started this thread was after the explicit stuff.

One thing I've never understood in PE/Noise is this notion that the listener is suppose to "get" what the artists motives are...shouldn't it be up to the listener to decide what they want this to be, rather then trying to figure out some artsy ambiguity approach, perhaps to someone else, they'd like it to be tasteless and nothing else, but pure audial violence. Am I the only one who thinks in these terms? For me Streicher and I don't care what anybody says about it, for me Streicher is WP, angry electronics and I don't give a fuck if his point of view is actually more drawn out and had more of an artistic vision than that...can't it just be bonehead for me and artsy for thee, without having to be lectured how I'm an idiot, because I don't it...I get it and I don't care and I reject it! Plain and simple. Is there anyone else who shares this sentiment, or does everybody follow precisely the artists own motives, does the artist even understand their own motives?

[Balor/SS1535]

But, sure, a lot of  people do that sort of thing. Sick Seed covered Skrewdriver, didn't they? Con-Dom and The Grey Wolves used a lot of White Power imagery, and seem to be not that way inclined, at all. Genocide Organ have 'White Power Forces', and no one who knows anything has them down as a 'white power band'.
Oh yes, I accept you were equivocal enough about FFH, but I'd never have thought it from their stuff. Perhaps the cover of 'Make Them Understand' could be a bit suggestive, but it's hardly explicit, and I supposed the lad who started this thread was after the explicit stuff.

One thing I've never understood in PE/Noise is this notion that the listener is suppose to "get" what the artists motives are...shouldn't it be up to the listener to decide what they want this to be, rather then trying to figure out some artsy ambiguity approach, perhaps to someone else, they'd like it to be tasteless and nothing else, but pure audial violence. Am I the only one who thinks in these terms? For me Streicher and I don't care what anybody says about it, for me Streicher is WP, angry electronics and I don't give a fuck if his point of view is actually more drawn out and had more of an artistic vision than that...can't it just be bonehead for me and artsy for thee, without having to be lectured how I'm an idiot, because I don't it...I get it and I don't care and I reject it! Plain and simple. Is there anyone else who shares this sentiment, or does everybody follow precisely the artists own motives, does the artist even understand their own motives?

I think too often the idea of "separating the art from the artist" becomes some loaded commentary about political correctness rather than something more literal. The art exists independently of the artists once it is created.  I think that gives quite a bit of interpretive freedom.

[Goat93]

But, sure, a lot of  people do that sort of thing. Sick Seed covered Skrewdriver, didn't they? Con-Dom and The Grey Wolves used a lot of White Power imagery, and seem to be not that way inclined, at all. Genocide Organ have 'White Power Forces', and no one who knows anything has them down as a 'white power band'.
Oh yes, I accept you were equivocal enough about FFH, but I'd never have thought it from their stuff. Perhaps the cover of 'Make Them Understand' could be a bit suggestive, but it's hardly explicit, and I supposed the lad who started this thread was after the explicit stuff.

One thing I've never understood in PE/Noise is this notion that the listener is suppose to "get" what the artists motives are...shouldn't it be up to the listener to decide what they want this to be, rather then trying to figure out some artsy ambiguity approach, perhaps to someone else, they'd like it to be tasteless and nothing else, but pure audial violence. Am I the only one who thinks in these terms? For me Streicher and I don't care what anybody says about it, for me Streicher is WP, angry electronics and I don't give a fuck if his point of view is actually more drawn out and had more of an artistic vision than that...can't it just be bonehead for me and artsy for thee, without having to be lectured how I'm an idiot, because I don't it...I get it and I don't care and I reject it! Plain and simple. Is there anyone else who shares this sentiment, or does everybody follow precisely the artists own motives, does the artist even understand their own motives?

There are a lot of Informations in the Releases, so everybody have to think for himself. But just pointing out this is WP or this is this or that is too easy.There are many layers of Informations and Intentions and mostly its a direct Position against the easy Way of Black and White. As example Grey Wolves  Division CD handles with Rockwell. The Fact that a Handfull White Power Guys are sitting in a Stadion Full of "Hateful" Black People is something to discuss about.
Intentions, Worldviews, Paradoxes, Slogans, Propaganda are examined and the Listeners don't get a Handbook for it.

[Cranial Blast]

But, sure, a lot of  people do that sort of thing. Sick Seed covered Skrewdriver, didn't they? Con-Dom and The Grey Wolves used a lot of White Power imagery, and seem to be not that way inclined, at all. Genocide Organ have 'White Power Forces', and no one who knows anything has them down as a 'white power band'.
Oh yes, I accept you were equivocal enough about FFH, but I'd never have thought it from their stuff. Perhaps the cover of 'Make Them Understand' could be a bit suggestive, but it's hardly explicit, and I supposed the lad who started this thread was after the explicit stuff.

One thing I've never understood in PE/Noise is this notion that the listener is suppose to "get" what the artists motives are...shouldn't it be up to the listener to decide what they want this to be, rather then trying to figure out some artsy ambiguity approach, perhaps to someone else, they'd like it to be tasteless and nothing else, but pure audial violence. Am I the only one who thinks in these terms? For me Streicher and I don't care what anybody says about it, for me Streicher is WP, angry electronics and I don't give a fuck if his point of view is actually more drawn out and had more of an artistic vision than that...can't it just be bonehead for me and artsy for thee, without having to be lectured how I'm an idiot, because I don't it...I get it and I don't care and I reject it! Plain and simple. Is there anyone else who shares this sentiment, or does everybody follow precisely the artists own motives, does the artist even understand their own motives?

There are a lot of Informations in the Releases, so everybody have to think for himself. But just pointing out this is WP or this is this or that is too easy.There are many layers of Informations and Intentions and mostly its a direct Position against the easy Way of Black and White. As example Grey Wolves  Division CD handles with Rockwell. The Fact that a Handfull White Power Guys are sitting in a Stadion Full of "Hateful" Black People is something to discuss about.
Intentions, Worldviews, Paradoxes, Slogans, Propaganda are examined and the Listeners don't get a Handbook for it.

I understand that completely, but sometimes I think you the listener can value the work to your own personal feelings and beliefs about the project, regardless if there is a more complex intended meaning behind the entire scope of the project, while being aware that there is a deeper meaning. I know that sounds kind of "dumb", but There are WP noise projects out there that are strictly that and nothing else. In my mind I'd like to think Streicher is the most responsible for this massive influence for those types of WP noise acts and I think there is enough evidence to come to a conclusion that it was indeed influential, whether or not his work was misinterpreted or whatever. I think once a legion of these what some would call WP noise acts wouldn't even exist without the work of Streicher. I think because of the often misinterpretation of the project puts Streicher is a new category all together, whether he likes it or not and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

[Goat93]

But, sure, a lot of  people do that sort of thing. Sick Seed covered Skrewdriver, didn't they? Con-Dom and The Grey Wolves used a lot of White Power imagery, and seem to be not that way inclined, at all. Genocide Organ have 'White Power Forces', and no one who knows anything has them down as a 'white power band'.
Oh yes, I accept you were equivocal enough about FFH, but I'd never have thought it from their stuff. Perhaps the cover of 'Make Them Understand' could be a bit suggestive, but it's hardly explicit, and I supposed the lad who started this thread was after the explicit stuff.

One thing I've never understood in PE/Noise is this notion that the listener is suppose to "get" what the artists motives are...shouldn't it be up to the listener to decide what they want this to be, rather then trying to figure out some artsy ambiguity approach, perhaps to someone else, they'd like it to be tasteless and nothing else, but pure audial violence. Am I the only one who thinks in these terms? For me Streicher and I don't care what anybody says about it, for me Streicher is WP, angry electronics and I don't give a fuck if his point of view is actually more drawn out and had more of an artistic vision than that...can't it just be bonehead for me and artsy for thee, without having to be lectured how I'm an idiot, because I don't it...I get it and I don't care and I reject it! Plain and simple. Is there anyone else who shares this sentiment, or does everybody follow precisely the artists own motives, does the artist even understand their own motives?

There are a lot of Informations in the Releases, so everybody have to think for himself. But just pointing out this is WP or this is this or that is too easy.There are many layers of Informations and Intentions and mostly its a direct Position against the easy Way of Black and White. As example Grey Wolves  Division CD handles with Rockwell. The Fact that a Handfull White Power Guys are sitting in a Stadion Full of "Hateful" Black People is something to discuss about.
Intentions, Worldviews, Paradoxes, Slogans, Propaganda are examined and the Listeners don't get a Handbook for it.

I understand that completely, but sometimes I think you the listener can value the work to your own personal feelings and beliefs about the project, regardless if there is a more complex intended meaning behind the entire scope of the project, while being aware that there is a deeper meaning. I know that sounds kind of "dumb", but There are WP noise projects out there that are strictly that and nothing else. In my mind I'd like to think Streicher is the most responsible for this massive influence for those types of WP noise acts and I think there is enough evidence to come to a conclusion that it was indeed influential, whether or not his work was misinterpreted or whatever. I think once a legion of these what some would call WP noise acts wouldn't even exist without the work of Streicher. I think because of the often misinterpretation of the project puts Streicher is a new category all together, whether he likes it or not and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

Could be and if its the Case, he did everything right with Streicher.
In my Opinion, the most influental are the People who work against something. An Antifascistic Organisation is much more Successful to create White Power Groups than any White Power Group in the First Place. Cause they focus the Attention and their Interpretation on so many others, that new Followers would belief thats the Way to be like that.
And there are not so many WP Noise People around, who are really into Politics. Hard to see any Political Structure in this Musical Subgenre at all. Mostly just Shock Value with a wide Variations of Shock Themes and its really hard to take it serious. Its like Black Metal some Years ago, where People where shocked with Satan Images.

On the other Hand it begins to went wrong, when the Listener try to choose, what the Artist try to interpret. There is always the possibility to be wrong with the Interpretation and sadly most People try to dictate their Interpretation to all others, insted to discuss the Interpretation.
So it went wrong and the Artist feels minsunderstood. (If he is not only in for the Shock Value of course)

I would say, if you take Con Dom's A Mans Skin Colour DLP and Streicher's Hammerskin Tape, its like two complete different Interpretations. A Lot of People call both WP Electronics, like its the same

[Cranial Blast]

But, sure, a lot of  people do that sort of thing. Sick Seed covered Skrewdriver, didn't they? Con-Dom and The Grey Wolves used a lot of White Power imagery, and seem to be not that way inclined, at all. Genocide Organ have 'White Power Forces', and no one who knows anything has them down as a 'white power band'.
Oh yes, I accept you were equivocal enough about FFH, but I'd never have thought it from their stuff. Perhaps the cover of 'Make Them Understand' could be a bit suggestive, but it's hardly explicit, and I supposed the lad who started this thread was after the explicit stuff.

One thing I've never understood in PE/Noise is this notion that the listener is suppose to "get" what the artists motives are...shouldn't it be up to the listener to decide what they want this to be, rather then trying to figure out some artsy ambiguity approach, perhaps to someone else, they'd like it to be tasteless and nothing else, but pure audial violence. Am I the only one who thinks in these terms? For me Streicher and I don't care what anybody says about it, for me Streicher is WP, angry electronics and I don't give a fuck if his point of view is actually more drawn out and had more of an artistic vision than that...can't it just be bonehead for me and artsy for thee, without having to be lectured how I'm an idiot, because I don't it...I get it and I don't care and I reject it! Plain and simple. Is there anyone else who shares this sentiment, or does everybody follow precisely the artists own motives, does the artist even understand their own motives?

There are a lot of Informations in the Releases, so everybody have to think for himself. But just pointing out this is WP or this is this or that is too easy.There are many layers of Informations and Intentions and mostly its a direct Position against the easy Way of Black and White. As example Grey Wolves  Division CD handles with Rockwell. The Fact that a Handfull White Power Guys are sitting in a Stadion Full of "Hateful" Black People is something to discuss about.
Intentions, Worldviews, Paradoxes, Slogans, Propaganda are examined and the Listeners don't get a Handbook for it.

I understand that completely, but sometimes I think you the listener can value the work to your own personal feelings and beliefs about the project, regardless if there is a more complex intended meaning behind the entire scope of the project, while being aware that there is a deeper meaning. I know that sounds kind of "dumb", but There are WP noise projects out there that are strictly that and nothing else. In my mind I'd like to think Streicher is the most responsible for this massive influence for those types of WP noise acts and I think there is enough evidence to come to a conclusion that it was indeed influential, whether or not his work was misinterpreted or whatever. I think once a legion of these what some would call WP noise acts wouldn't even exist without the work of Streicher. I think because of the often misinterpretation of the project puts Streicher is a new category all together, whether he likes it or not and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

Could be and if its the Case, he did everything right with Streicher.
In my Opinion, the most influental are the People who work against something. An Antifascistic Organisation is much more Successful to create White Power Groups than any White Power Group in the First Place. Cause they focus the Attention and their Interpretation on so many others, that new Followers would belief thats the Way to be like that.
And there are not so many WP Noise People around, who are really into Politics. Hard to see any Political Structure in this Musical Subgenre at all. Mostly just Shock Value with a wide Variations of Shock Themes and its really hard to take it serious. Its like Black Metal some Years ago, where People where shocked with Satan Images.

On the other Hand it begins to went wrong, when the Listener try to choose, what the Artist try to interpret. There is always the possibility to be wrong with the Interpretation and sadly most People try to dictate their Interpretation to all others, insted to discuss the Interpretation.
So it went wrong and the Artist feels minsunderstood. (If he is not only in for the Shock Value of course)

I would say, if you take Con Dom's A Mans Skin Colour DLP and Streicher's Hammerskin Tape, its like two complete different Interpretations. A Lot of People call both WP Electronics, like its the same

Thanks for writing and giving a good intelligent insight and nice reply back in regards to the subject. I think you're spot on with a lot of what you said, including the line about how people dictate to others their own interpretations and pretty soon the fact can be become so misconstrued to the point it's lost it's original meaning. I think this happens more then it doesnt. Also an interesting point about black metal, how in the beginning it was like satanic panic moment and remember all those guys in 2nd wave like Darkthrone, Burzum, ect. Were adamant that their intentions we never satanic, but now you look today at some of these bands like Hellvetron or even Inquisition who have sort built off of those myths of the early 90s. I think that's a little bit the same thing going on in PE in some ways.